Essex Board of Selectmen, Sept. 28, 2026

Hi, this is the board of selectments meeting of September 28th. Um, calling the meeting to order at 6 o'clock and this meeting is being broadcast and recorded. Um, we're going to go right to um your report if we could. >> Yeah, just just quick, we have somebody here from the Tobacco Lake and Watershed Association and there were two items on your agenda I didn't think he's here for. One of them is the um license with the Tobacco Lake and Wershed Association like we did with the Legion. >> Yep. >> They don't have a signed copy tonight, but the board meets again on the 5th. >> Okay. >> It is on your agenda. >> Yep. >> And and uh Allan, I don't believe there's any issue. The board was already

in agreement so long as the lake association signed it in a form that that we prescribed. And then the other thing was the do we want to talk about the other thing the um application >> the 604B water quality grant. >> Um the lake association would like to do a project that takes advantage of a lot of data they've collected recently about all of the septic systems that surround Chebacco Lake in an effort to eventually reduce the amount of phosphorus going into the lake. In a freshwater environment, phosphorus is the limiting nutrient. And if you can cut that down, then you're going to cut down on uh blooms, including toxic blooms like cyanobacteria.

And um I do have a um letter of support for consideration by the board. >> So we got that um by email. >> Yes. >> And um I thought that the PowerPoint was very well written and very clear. I I don't know if you guys had a chance to look at it. I thought it was great. Um, one thing I would love next time we have something like that is context. So, what is the current condition of the lake in terms of that? Because I don't I don't know that stuff. >> It's it's suffering from phosphor excess phosphorus. >> A lot of invasive plants. There was no uh cyanobacteria bloom this year, but there has been the previous three or

four years. And that closes it down. um at least for several weeks. >> Yeah. >> Um but yeah, it's had a lot of uh invasive plants in there that have been growing like wildfire for decades. Really? >> Yeah. >> Because of the excess phosphorus. >> Yeah. Um can I have a motion to approve >> letter of support for the 604B grant application? Um the town is actually the applicant but this is the select then throwing its own letter of support into it that which will become part of the application. >> Right. >> The lake association is going to do all the heavy lifting. We're just the conduit because a municipality has to be

the applicant. >> So moved. >> Second. >> All those in favor? I I >> Great. >> All right. So we'll get that to you Alan. I think those are all the things right. >> Yep. Yep. >> No, no, it's okay. >> We're good. >> So, moving into my report. Um, first item on there is continued discussion with respect to the government study committee. I did speak to the town moderator. He is willing to actually be the um appointing authority once the selectman or people who see our announcement just generally uh provide a

complete list of potential nom applicants. So far, people have I've had five people approach us directly and I know that um Chairman Cameron, you had a list of potential people that you would like to perhaps put forward and I don't know whether um any of the other board members have ideas for names and if you don't have them now, we're accepting them through October 13th. >> Any are yours people that want to do it or just a list of >> This is my list of like who I'd like to ask. So, I'm kind of making my way through the list, but I I I'm going to show you what it's kind of like. I have the name, contact information, >> profession, and then skill set. >> And I thought that would help Jeff if he

was vetting these people. Sure. So, I'm in the midst of asking people if they want to do it. And so, I'm just going to show you the format of my list and then you can do your own thing and but just so you know who I'm talking to. >> Okay. Thank you. Um, >> they're just looking >> and this is I I've not talked to Jeff about any of these people because I want it to be clean, you know. >> Um, >> that's something you're going to get to him. >> Uh-uh. I'm telling these people if you want to do this. >> Oh, they should. >> You should send the letter. >> Okay. >> Okay. There you go. >> Anything else on that one? >> Anyone? Okay.

>> Okay. >> All right. The next item, >> is this my copy or you want it? >> If you want to keep it, you can keep it. I have it electronically. >> Okay. Uh, is the public safety building siding project update and change order? Um, before the rain came, they were expecting to be completely done by the end of this week. I suspect that'll slip a little bit. Uh but the change order that I have talked about at a previous meeting. Uh the original contract scope included the replacement of a bunch of the uh PVC trim on the building because it was thought that if they're going to remove it to do the siding, they were going to wreck it. Fortunately, they were able to get a lot of the trim off

without damaging it so they could reuse it. We're going to get a credit for that against now what has to happen which is um painting of any trim that they did have to replace. The contract did not carry painting of the new trim. And you really do need to paint it or it's going to look bright white against an off-white rest of the trim. >> Why didn't we have a contract for painting it? >> I I guess the engineer didn't think of that. They didn't they didn't look at the fact that the other >> So, this is a change order for a not to exceed value of $3,000 and that includes backing out the credit we're getting for trim that wasn't u had to be purchased.

>> So, they'll be done soon. And um >> last thing to do is paint it. Oh, yes. Yes. Beyond the painting. Yes. >> Yep. Great. So, if you want to do a motion on that. >> Oh, what do we have? >> It's to not to exceed $3,000. >> And do you have a name a number for this one? >> Well, not to exceed it will it will be less. It would be $3,000 or less. They're still waiting for a couple of other quotes and they'll go with the lowest paint quote that they get. >> Okay. Can I have a motion to approve the change order amount of uh not to exceed $3,000 for um revived property solutions to um uh for to address the painting of the trim? >> Yeah. Moved. Second.

>> All those in favor? >> I. >> Do I sign this? >> Yes. >> Here. >> Right there. Yep. >> Thanks, Brandon. >> Thank you. Next we have uh a summary of the school district and municipal collaboration group that was held last week. Uh generally we talked about opportunities to share services where we're always kind of talking about that and if situations change with one organization or the other and there's something that has extra capacity then there's always a chance to cooperate, collaborate. We also discussed of course the um plans for the

school vote that's coming up. We did hear expressed from the Manchester finance committee that they felt like since we're only getting the school figures now that they feel that it's a short turnaround to get those that information out to the public. We, you know, reminded everyone that um we were told that we wouldn't have figures until September. It's still September and if anything, it's going to be about a week's delay. Um, so it was the original plan and we did discuss everything including financing options way back in March. So, we left that meeting uh with, you know, a plan from the school district to get numbers out and then

translate those numbers into what it looks like per year financing because in the first few years it could be that only a small amount of money is borrowed. and we're looking at all the options, but I I feel that we left it with the fact that they're going to stick with those dates, which would be >> two town meetings on November 16th and two special elections on December 10th. >> Yeah. >> Did you want to add to that? So, we got a number last week that was high and um the value engineering group or value management group met LA la last week um brought it down um and tomorrow night we'll be finalizing those numbers and whatever the value engineering um

decisions are. So, we'll have a solid number tomorrow night that will be submitted to the MSBA and then um it's going to be a very quick campaign to um answer people's questions and get the information out. But, um remember the vote is the 16th of November um at town meetings and then we've got >> Manchester is the 16th as well. >> Yeah. Everything every both dates are the same. >> Yeah. And I think when we look at the fall the town meeting warrant, we're going to have to be a little strategic about our timing of the article to make sure that folks are here to answer questions same night. I think Manchester starts at 6, we start at 6:45. And then um

the vote is the 10th of December, so that gives us a nice chunk of time, although it is over the holiday. So um that's that's what's happening there. But um please please please if anyone is tuning in go to the um information sessions that the school district is holding >> um this month on the 5th, right? >> Yes, I think that's what they said. >> The 5th and the 13th. >> Oh, I thought it was the fifth. >> For the eth and the >> fifth and the eth. >> And I think there's one in Essex for the 13th. >> Okay. >> They're all posted on social media >> in the evening. Yep. And it's not a I'll just ask you to consider going to the Manchester one as well or just so that

they can see Essex visibility, you know, and support. >> Do we have those dates? >> Yeah, I'll I'll I'll give them all to you. I think they're the eight the 8th the 13th are the two community forums. One in Essex, one in Manchester. >> Okay. The fifth was was another meeting, I Oh, that's the the fifth is the finance committee and board of selectman with the school building committee, but we're also meeting here, but they have their own meeting and we can ask for one if we'd like one. >> Okay. >> All right. So, speaking of the town meeting warrant, uh that's the next item for discussion. Uh the planning board articles are articles 1 through six and you have seen drafts of those.

They're currently looking at town council's comments and compiling a final draft of each one and those will be inserted there. Article seven is the vote to um consider uh borrowing money for the school, the school replacement project. And uh I think you've seen that town council made some comments on not only this but the rest of the warrant. Uh that was over the weekend and I've provided that to you. So this is a slightly outdated but I've put all those in and I sent the school language off to the district because they have to have the re the revised version reviewed by the MSBA.

>> Article eight is the adoption of the fire chief statute. Article nine is the elderly and disabled taxation fund. 10 is the water plant carbon media replacement. 11 water and sewer rate studies. 12. Now I've already crossed out the winch on the DPW truck. Uh also cross out the next one, the generator at the DPW barn. The reason the generator radiator. Okay. Uh wait, it's it's not the next one. It is the third one down replacement of radiator in the water filtration plant uh generator. The reason for that is they don't think they can wait for town meeting to get the money. they're going to have to buy it out of their budget

and then in another article which is article 18 elsewhere in this warrant there'll be money raised money uh transferred out of the water uh enterprise okay >> retained earnings to refund their operating line and uh they found that out when the generator was needed during the storm and they thought that it was you know going to make it but it's not going to make it and they don't want another storm prior to the fall town meeting to cause a problem because that powers the water supply for the town during a uh an emergency. >> Can I ask a question? And I don't know if this is an appropriate time to ask the question, but >> um the difference between can you clarify the difference between article

18 and article 19? So >> y >> they're spending out of their budget. We would you're putting it on article 18 which is >> y >> revising a budget, >> right? And then article 19 is paying a bill >> that was not submitted to the town by the deadline for the preceding fiscal year. >> Okay. >> So it's a completely different >> Sorry. Okay. That's what I wanted to check on. Okay. >> So this list is getting shorter, but one of them's going to show up down below. >> Uh 13 police cruiser, 14 the community preservation projects. Now, one of the things that you were going to discuss with the Board of Public Works, although that's now been delayed,

uh, was the ability of the DPW to potentially undertake projects at the Centennial Grove that would reduce erosion off of two hillsides, one going down to the beach and one coming down from the cottage. We're not going to get a timely answer on that, but I did ask the acting superintendent of public works and she said that she is working internally to determine whether they have that ability. And it's important because that's the project that the selectmen would ask for from CPA. I don't know whether there are other departments asking for anything this fall, but as long as the selectmen are okay with me

putting it forward because it's either going to be we find out that they think they can handle the work with their equipment and their personnel that would just break down to a materials only project or they can't and that means we have to get a quote on on you know design construction >> materials. They're looking to see if they can do the design and then >> the design is pretty much there from >> from from the report. But if you're going to do if you they're not going to be able to do it, then you're going to have to do a design because you have to bid that design out and get someone else to do it. >> So, you know, the article always just is generic like this and the actual project

doesn't get handed out until town meeting. So as long as the board is okay with pursuing it, whether it's materials only or or the other, you want to move forward, we can move it forward. >> I think we should just because the CPC has to meet prior to talk about it. >> They do. Yeah. >> And the other challenge is remember a few years ago they had had a meeting just moments before a town meeting to approve something and it was there was so much uncertainty in the room that night when it came up that it was like this isn't a good practice. So, um I think Michelle wants to have >> okay >> the meeting in time to bring it and have kind of a little more certainty about

that. >> We did mention to her that this project might be coming, but we didn't know the scope yet. We still don't know it. >> Can you just get the numbers from the DPW just um just in case >> um >> like estimates or not? >> Well, they would have to tell us. So, if they can do it, then the labor is included in their operating budget. They would just have to go through what they think they need for materials. Either way, I'm either going to get that or I'm going to get >> maybe Horley Whitten to at least give me an order of magnitude cost estimate if we were going to hire the whole thing out and they'll round it up and we'll say we need this much money. >> Okay. Right.

>> Some you know what it's going to cost as well >> or rough cost. Then we have um the special purpose stabilization funds. There are 12 of those. I think we'll find out from the finance committee later in this meeting what they plan to propose for that. The reserve fund is usually replenished at the fall town meeting depending on what the finance committee has used it for between uh June uh July 1 and and fall town meeting. OPED. Again, we'll get a recommendation from the finance committee on a figure there. The budget adjustments, um, we have some minor adjustments to wage lines, some harbor, uh, master budget changes, and that's all coming

from the, uh, waterways fund. Anyway, um, we don't at this point think we're going to need more funding for a fire chief. And I just mentioned we'll probably be refunding a line for the water department for that radiator replacement. And article 19 is for unpaid bills. And we do have one major bill and it um is from the fact that one of the snow removal vendors did not build a town until just now, believe it or not. And of course, that's way past the end of the fiscal year. And so the town needs to consider that. and it takes a 9/10 vote to fund that and it's a substantial bill of about $26,000 and that's it. Um there will also be a

um special election warrant for the board to sign also on the 19th, but you do have one more meeting to talk about the draft warrant which will be on the 5th next week. And >> I see the recommendations are going to be a handout along with the um funding as well. Uh yeah, the explanations are in the warrant, but the recommend the the handout that shows the uh monetary amounts will have the recommendedations from the different boards and committees. That's correct. >> Anything else on that right now? >> I have some questions. So the fin is coming to this meeting to talk about the monetary articles which we'll talk about later. >> Yes. Um, I was just thinking about,

okay, what articles need to have more meat or some more uh FAQs and I was thinking inclusary inclusionary zoning. Number seven, which is um the school building project where we could provide a link to whatever the school has. Number eight for the fire chief kind of just contextually what's why how this came about. Number nine is the tax fund. Just some clarification as to like how does this set up? What what's the what's the deal here? >> Number 11, the water sewer rate. I >> Nick gave us a really good explanation in an email probably in the fall. I could that was a good thing to just provide information. The OPB um I think it's important for people to kind of

understand how that's working >> and how close we are to it being self- sustaining. >> Yeah. But then there was that >> we got close and then >> Yeah. Then the case has changed >> yank the rug. Um but >> that'll probably always happen to a point. Yes. Yeah. >> Um and then um the budget adjustments and the unpaid bills. >> Um just kind of like what are the what's the difference there? >> So how do you propose to get that out there? Something on the website or >> Yeah, we could put it on the website. Um >> I can take a stab at those if you want. >> Great. And then I'll help you and we'll get some as long as is the board okay

with that to have that >> provided. Okay. Um, and then we said that we were going to have a portion of our meeting open um, for questions. Um, and I think that was after the 19th when we >> Yep. >> Is that correct? >> Yep. So, there's a second it would be the first meeting in November, I believe. Pam, do you have the schedule that first meeting in November? >> So, October 19th is >> November second. >> I think it is November. Yep. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, just for people to know that there will be a section of our meeting >> where we'll have open >> questions for people who want to ask about the town meeting warrant.

>> Okay. Thanks, Brandon. >> Yep. And then um application for federal grant for Essex Causeway flooding solutions. So, this is the protect grant. The board is aware that we did u prepare for a protect grant application in 2025 and then a few days before everybody was going to be submitting the federal government said that the grant that grant program was paused. The grant program came back without a lot of notice. Fortunately, uh, Mass DOT is, um, allowing their paid consultant, VHB, to help us develop a modified grant application. A lot of the stuff is the same. The problem is, not

only did it come back, but they completely changed how you had to submit it, and there are tables and things that are different. So, everything has to be put into the right places, and VHP is doing that. um Mass DOT would be the um primary applicant and um the town of Essics would be what they call a co-licant. Um, of course, it's uh much to our advantage to um have this and process this. We're looking at something that could be in excess of $2 million. And it's going to take what the Metropolitan Planning Organization has already done. It's going to take the um results of the LEAP grant study that is

that are coming out right now, build on those and hopefully move toward a preferred alternative including a lot of design work. After that, you'd be able to actually take that once you're through permitting and try to get federal or other state funding for the actual solution, the implementation of keeping the causeway from flooding. >> Yeah. >> However that works out. So, um, at this time, um, just making sure that the board is okay with that. Uh, because the you don't meet again, uh, by the time that they have to have everything wrapped up and submitted. Um, I think

it I at this point I think if the board could voice uh support saying that they do um allow this to be applied for, that the chairman could sign a grant application outside of a meeting when it's available, and that the chairman could sign uh a letter of report. So moved. >> Second. I I do have a question. Um in your report, it says that uh at this point in the process, the town is being asked for numerous letters of support and around $21,000 in local funding. Where does that 21,000? >> So that would come from we have a um coastal resilience. One of those 12 funds has money in it for that purpose. And as we get closer, if they tell us,

hey, we're, you know, we're going to fund this, it will take a long time. And then the next town meeting after that, the town will just vote. Okay. >> To come out of that. All right. Thank you. So Brendan um just uh curious to know how the cho the recommend recommended option will be chosen in the you know five years from now or whenever it is they come out with it. Um is that something that the board decides, the town decides? It will be something it will be something that we're going to get input from from all those players >> ultimately the selectman as the executive branch will say yes okay we've seen all the alternatives we've seen

about that? >> Yes. So, the um each of the leases for leased property on Kennomal Point um allow the selectmen to vote to make administrative changes to lot lines because they're just leaseold lines. They are not property lines. They are not recorded at the registry of deeds. At one point in time, Kenomo Point was one large property all the way back through Sumac Drive. >> Twothirds of it was sold off and at that time there was subdivisions were done. A couple subdivisions were done under special subdivision um zoning bylaws that actually made legal lots and they

were sold to individual owners. But the one-third of it that's pretty much north of Clammer's Beach um is still existing as one large parcel divided into administrative leased parcels. And so that's why the selectmen can agree to change uh lease lines. And so now we've had a request from the uh from the LEI to make that change. And you can see in the in the graphic that they have and the leie is the lei of both of the properties in question. So this is a line in between two lease holds for the same lease holder. We've

done this before where there were two different leaseolders too as long as everyone agreed. And so if you look at the picture that's in there, >> you'll see what it looks like today and then you'll see what they would like to have it look like. Okay, wait a minute. >> I can pull up my copy, too. >> 76 and 77A. >> I don't mean to be rude. I'm gonna ask some questions. Okay. Um

what does this mean in terms of any dollars that we generate from this? You know, does it change anything? >> It doesn't because the change is really dimminimous. It's, you know, the value of the property is the value to occupy and habit, you know, >> uh inhabit the property. Mhm. >> Um, you could even put in your vote that as long as you get the ascent from the lease holder that it will not change the basis for the lease on either property. >> If you feel that you want to do that, then that's appropriate as well. >> Um, and I guess what happens if so there's still two dwellings, it's still two lots.

>> Yeah. >> So if um the family decides They want to >> transfer one >> transfer lease. It goes to the new lot line. The new lot line is in place. >> Yes. And whoever is assuming that >> you you tell them, "Yeah, that's the lot line and the the price hasn't changed. The lease the lease amount has not changed." >> If you were to look at this, tell me what the difference is. Like what's the >> It's certain certain number of square feet. I haven't done the actual math on it, but >> So, it looks like the line goes closer to 76's um back. Do you want to Is it okay if we >> Yeah, come up to the microphone.

>> I'm sorry to ask stupid questions. >> It's not a stupid question if you're not familiar with the lots. So, originally when we first purchased, there was a straight line, let's say, from the ocean to the street. >> And then during the whole bridge lease into the 20-year leases, um, I don't remember who the appraiser or the person that came out and drew all the lot lines. They gave both of the lots an angle. So, that's when it was changed. It was historically straight from the ocean to the street for like 80 years or so and then it got changed I think in 2015. So we're we're not looking for a new line. We're just looking for the old line. >> Okay. >> Oh, it was changed in 2015.

>> 15, right? But I'm saying we're this isn't we don't want something new. We want to go back to what was prior to 2015. >> Why? because it's it's a non right now we have irregular lots that have an angle. So the house at 109 has a 9 foot um frontage on the street only 9 ft versus the other house has like 93. >> Yeah. >> And if like you're saying down the road if somebody were if we were to sell both one or one of them it's just it's just strange if we put it back to where it is. We both have like a normal frontage and for >> what would the frontages be with the change? >> I beg you. >> What would the two frontages be with the

change? >> I don't know because like like Brendan had mentioned there's like no definitive lot lines, but I think it would bring them both to about 50 ft each. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Which would be normal. >> Yeah. and what if the board moves forward with it, we would use our GIS to approximate the line that they're talking about and then we would have to have the assessor's maps changed and eventually it would be reflected that way because the um the lease actually speaks of as laid out on the assessor's maps even though they're not um legal lots on their own. >> I don't think so. So these are these look like the two existing lots and then the change.

I don't see the change on here. >> Would it go basically from this to like that? >> There were two things there. Hold on. >> Yeah, there's this and this. But this looks like this, right? That doesn't >> But there were Can you Can you approach So or do you have >> Yeah, because I thought we had one that showed go from that to that. That's what you Yeah, that's what they're describing. Yeah. >> So, we have this and it looks >> the same. >> This is the old >> Yeah. >> So, 93 is 77 A and B and 92 is 76. So, the line is >> okay. And the copies you have, you can

see like there's like >> an angle. I see what you're saying. >> This is used to go straight out here. >> Yep. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. The only thing I would propose is the first thing that we that you mentioned about like the cost that no changes, >> right? Is that something you'll ascent to on the record that you understand that the leases will not change because of the land change? >> Exactly. >> So that Pam, let that be reflected in the record. >> We're good. Thank you very much. They've acknowledged that if a lot line changes, they are acknowledging that there will be no change in the basis of the uh lease amount. >> Good. >> Thank you.

>> Uh so let me just ask you this so that when this actually happens, if they vote for it, how far off of the upper house do you want to be with that line? Because that's how we're going to draw it. >> Yeah. Could we go out there and show someone exactly know where >> we because we we're going to need to have a well we would we could we could measure it in the field >> because we're going to need to have a dimension in order to have the map actually changed >> now will it be from this point no matter what is that the swing point? >> Yes. >> So that's the hinge. >> Yeah. Mhm. >> Right. >> Yep. So, we'll have to do some um

>> work in the field. >> It's a little off this line. Maybe about like >> Well, that's what's important. >> Yeah. But if I could point it out, it's easier when you're there to see it. >> Okay. >> Yep. So, I think the board has the gist of it and I think is you could you could vote um to be um >> verified in the field by the town administrator. >> Is there a cost to drawing redraw? I mean like to having a surveyor or anything? We're not >> No, it's not a surveyor at all. No, we're going to tell the people who handle our assessor's maps. That's why I need some numbers like start here and keep it keep it this many feet off of this corner of the house or

including but not limited to articles five and nine. >> So moved. >> Second. >> All in favor? Hi. >> Hi. >> So, can I have that back from John Drew and from the I gave it to Brenda? >> I have it. I'll give I'll give it to you. >> All right. She's going to hold you to it. >> Yep. You'll have it. >> Okay. Um >> here actually. >> Uh I would love to hear public comment if there is any Okay. All right. Um on to um other business. You are here. Um Natasha, do you are you

the cyclical property inspection program is based on a 10-year cycle. The assessors may inspect properties more frequently when necessary or appropriate or appropriate based on factors including but not limited to building permits, changes to a property, unique structures or layouts, mixeduse commercial properties or requests from uh property owners. Question, does this involve all properties in the town? The cyclical property inspection program is intended to provide for the inspection of all properties in the town over the 10-year cycle. However, not every property will be inspected during this particular round of inspections. The assessors prioritize properties based on where they fall within the 10-year

cycle, as well as other factors. Question, when will the inspections begin? Computer work and property research are scheduled to begin at the end of September with field inspections beginning on October 2nd. Data collector Nate Kramer will have proper identification with him while conducting inspections. The Essex Police Department and other town departments have been notified of the inspection program. Two members of the board of assessors will also accompany Mr. Kramer on some of the inspections. Question: Will there be any prior notice to property owners? Yes, the assessors have provided advanced public notice of the inspection program. Information has been shared at selectment meetings, posted on the town

website under town news, and made available on the assessor's web page. Information has also been posted on the town clerk's bulletin board and shared with the police department. So, those are some follow-ups to what you had asked at the last meeting. >> Thank you. >> I think the issue was just like having your home ready for public viewing, you know, like there's some rough days in our house. I don't know about you guys, but um Okay. And um we're waiting for folks from the board of engineers and the finance committee. >> Yes.

I'll ask you a question because it's relevant but we had um you had given us two copies of the descript job description and I think this is the this this is the um markedup draft And this but it ends up being this. >> It's this is like the track changes one. >> This is track changes. But not everything on the original one I did was was stripped out. So the only way to really look at it is the track changes one. So you can see what was there and what came out. And as we go through it, I have a number of places where I want to call people's attention to and some questions to ask. That's in addition to how much of the condensed version is

being kept versus >> Yes. It's uh very structured the first version than I did, but it is also much more detailed. >> Yeah. >> And you don't lose anything in translation. >> That's kind of Yeah. Okay. >> Hi. >> Hello. >> Hi. >> It's okay. I'll grab some chair. >> We finished the rest of our meeting. >> Well, we were you were in charge. It was a busy meeting. We got through them. So,

camera or something. >> Yeah, don't worry about it. We're just talking. >> Change gears. >> Is Christian here not tonight or No, >> he was he was downstairs. >> All right. So, the first discussion item for this group when everyone arrives, come on up. Um, >> has to do with um current and future operating budget and the draft position description. >> Bernie,

>> we're also going to discuss um public funding for town events or events that are held within the town. Okay. So, we want to wait for Christian to talk about the job description, don't we? >> Yeah. You're going to want him probably for everything that we're going to talk about. I think I'm going to ask you one question that I don't necessarily need him for, but there's a difference in language um of call force and all call. What is the term that we want to use throughout? Well, an all call department is a department where people get paid

when they get summoned for a for emergency, for training, for any reason that the department needs them. >> If you talk about paid on call, you could be talking about a situation where somebody is paid even if they're not there. Now, we already have some of that >> because our night coverage is paid on call. We're talking about the difference between >> generally calling the fire department and all call department versus a paid on call department. I don't think it's a paid on call department. You have paid on call features built in. Um, but generally it's a call fire department. Is that correct? Yeah, paid on call I think would uh denote someone

being there like full-time and then kind of that hybrid model like Hamilton or Wenom where they have call and um full-time. >> You do have people at night who agree to take a stipend so that they're at the ready, but that's really not even the same thing. So I think as we start to discuss it, we just keep that in mind. >> Yeah. >> So do you want to talk about the position description first or the budget part? Let's talk about the the job description first. Um because there's it's complicated and um I thought we could go chunk by chunk if that's okay. >> Do you want to lead this conversation? >> So I did um as the board of fire engineers is aware a um detailed job

description that's based on three other communities job descriptions that have all called fire departments. The board of fire engineers was asked to take a look at that. They came up with what they called their condensed position description. Since it was not necessarily easy to compare between the two, I then went and put them both on one document. So, it's a redlinined document. And before we get into other details, I had some questions for the group. Um on the second page of the uh redline document toward the bottom it talks about um fire chief's authority

and it says town bylaws personnel policies. Then it says and collective bargaining agreements um as they may apply in the future. Um there is no collective bargaining agreement right now. I'm not sure that this is something that we should put in the position description because as it comes along, if it ever came along, it would it would automatically be part of the person's position. Um, so think think about that. Also, there is a chain of command on the next page that says chief to deputy chief, captains, lieutenants, firefighters, and EMTs. I think that the new chief is going needs to have a chance to look

at the entire lay of the land and determine what that will look like. We generally don't put chain of command in a position description. Um >> can we stop one second to look at um some other things that are different? >> Yeah. So under the chief's authorities derived from there's um a number of things but there seems to be more in this this document >> right so OEMS EMS regulations that wasn't in there and I think that's appropriate >> mass DLS um safety standards so there's OSHA but then there's also the the state um agency that that now actually can

enforce standard those OSHA standards on a community. Um, and then they added NFPA standards alignment and they list certain standards and I think that's also appropriate. >> And I guess my question is right before it was very explicit, right? It was really detailed and there was like a wall of text with all of these kind of laid out. Is that would that be an an accurate like description of that. Now they're kind of condensed. >> If you see it in um >> pink, it was in there. >> If you see it in pink, it was in there. Exactly. Uh but if you also see it in non-bolded regular text, it was already

in there, too. >> And I just wonder, is it okay >> that's taking out? The pink is taking out. >> The white >> text that looks like that is something that was already in there, but it wasn't >> proposed for taking out. I guess I'm asking somebody like Nick, when you look at a job description that just refers to the Mass General law instead of breaking it out into detail, does that matter? I mean, and it it doesn't. So, >> I think it's getting getting into the >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, you you got and you think from a municipal standpoint, it's okay to just refer to the to the different >> that they'll get it that they know. >> Yeah. if they don't know the NFPA

standards, we got bigger problems. But we did talk about it as a board, right? So, it basically allows us to and and we did some research into the standards that were cited and it covers a lot of the safety stuff. It covers a lot of the um you know, hazards that they may be going into and expectations and all that stuff. So it's also helpful because if we get finite or granular uh we could kind of outdate ourselves a little bit whereas if we're citing the standards the standards are automatically going to be updated and they're still held accountable to X. >> Oh that's a very good point. Okay thanks. >> So with that what are we looking for? They have a bulleted list. Is that what

you're looking to retain in the final position description? I would say yes. >> I I would say yes. I would leave out collective bargaining agreements. That's my sticking point. >> We don't have I mean I don't have a problem with that. I think like you said, if it's if it's going to be if it's something that comes down the road, then it gets added down the road. >> Statutory relationship. So >> I don't want to speak for I mean there's three people here. So

Yep. Um, this was condensed down to under the direction of the board of selecting consults with town administrator on administrative procedures, whereas it was more detailed prior to that. And I would actually want to get in there, no matter how we work this out, I want to get in there that the fire chief reports to the board of selectment, which the statute that could be adopted >> explicitly says. >> Can you say reports to and serves at the direction? >> Yeah, you could say reports to and serves at the pleasure or at the direction. Um, you know, the original was more wordy. what is being proposed is is more

brief and it almost it's it's like um focusing on administrative procedures whereas the section was intended to be supervision in its entirety >> and there's more than administrative procedures involved with that. Should there be? >> Probably not. >> You want to bring back some of that text? >> I do. >> Okay. My understanding is that you guys got feedback from the company yesterday. Has that been incorporated in this? So, I'm assuming that we're still in a draft phase. >> Yeah, we are still in the draft. We have not incorporated uh one person's advice. I don't think

we've had a chance to get the other one incorporated. So, >> so we have some room to >> So, and we're, you know, just to set the stage, >> we sent back the abbreviated version with the understanding of it still needs massaging, right? We're not I don't think there's too much in there that we're >> very like, oh my gosh. >> We think we need a process to move forward. I think we need probably one person from the board of fire engineers and me to sit down after we have this general discussion and come up with okay this is it so that everyone can feel confident and you could potentially even adopt this at your next meeting which is a week from today. Okay, I think that'd

be great. >> U but just some other highlights. Um it talks about scheduling of scheduling and assignments. There you're speaking of assigning work tasks, right? Not like you are the sole firefighter in charge of this, right? >> Is that right? Okay. Um there's a disciplinary thing in here um that talks about the chief retaining authority to impose discipline except termination. Um since not only the chief but the firefighters are and will still be appointed by the

board of selectmen, any discipline actually has to be meed out by the board of selectmen. So that can't be a thing. um because they're the appointing authority and there's >> so that can is there an ability for them to have any level of discipline at all and it's just a question. >> No, beyond beyond perhaps these are in our this is in our policies and procedures. we're giving you a warning. But if you're actually going to impose discipline, doesn't matter who it is in the town, their appointing authority is the only entity that can impose discipline. And in fact, okay, so let's talk about the police department. We've had police officers that have been

disciplined in the past. That arrives back at the board of selectmen sometimes in executive session. It's just the way it is. Okay. Um, I think that's different if it was a strong chief, but that's not what we're looking at here. >> So, do you need to break that out and be a little bit more explicit about that? >> Thanks. >> Um, and then, uh, >> I mean, I think maybe that's something we can at least try to >> I'd just like to kind of circle back to that at some, you know, smaller group. >> We'll have a talk. I mean, is it going to be you and I that sit? Is it going to be you? >> Is it going to be me and one of the other guys? I What do you want to do?

I'm happy to do it, but I would defer to again the group to make sure that we're I'm not just saying, "Oh, I'll do it." And someone else wants to do it. So, >> sure. Uh, Wednesday. >> It's tomorrow. >> That's unfortunate. >> Okay. So, you'll let me know tomorrow. >> Tomorrow's Tuesday. >> So, you'll let me know. You'll let me know. All right. We talked about on call versus paid on call. Um I I think we should add in here participation in the KAN regional emergency planning committee. It wasn't I I don't think it was specifically in here, but it's become a very important thing. >> That's on number seven.

>> Also, is the mutual aid is not is that something that needs to be noted anywhere? >> You're saying that it came out? I just didn't see it in I'm I was I was focused on this one. >> Right. >> So I don't know if that needs to be teased out or not. >> Mutually from what perspective? >> Um I think it's about the coordination and >> sections have an inter agency coordination and public engagement. Well certainly inter agency coordination mutual aid. I think we find a way to cover it. >> Yeah. And there >> and that I mean that's done organically at the the Essex County Chief's meetings anyways. That's where it takes place as long. >> And then in that same section, is it

really essential to have this person signing up for and going to International Association of Fire Chiefs and New England Fire Chiefs Association? I can see Essex County and I can see Mass Association of Fire Chiefs, but the other two, isn't that just taking the person away for more things when perhaps the first two would be sufficient? I don't know. But that's what came to my mind. >> Yeah. You know, Nick, feel free to weigh in. I mean, I've gone to IFAC and and um you know, I've gone to a few of them uh more on my other employers dime. Uh and I have found them, you know, from a a development standpoint of leadership. You know, I would certainly be selective with them because not all are created

equal, but uh I do feel it's the fire service is actually changing, which is a change. Um but it's important to kind of stay current. The issue though is we do not we do not have a budget to send people to wherever they're going to have this thing, get a plane fair. It's it's not really a thing. Uh so there is one in Connecticut which is you know and we can discuss it further. Um you know kind of offline um I think that's um >> yeah Mohein Sun has a pretty lowc cost one but again maybe it was the first two description. >> Yeah, we could say the first two and then others as as as selected by the

board of selectman from time to time or something like that. >> Obviously, you want your fire to stay current with everything and they do that through conferences to find new technology. >> They network, they do all that stuff. I mean, >> when they're in Hawaii, does everyone everybody want to go? Yeah, sure. When they're in North Dakota, does everybody want to go? No. No. So, I think a I think a happy medium there is we'll come up with wording there. Um, >> do they zoom? >> No. No. >> Then there's a list of things that were added. Um, new section job performance requirements. Number five will live within Essex or in a budding community or within a

reasonable response time as determined by the board of selectment. This one's very important because you're going to get applicants from far and wide and it is an important consideration, but you really need to nail this one down because we need to know as people apply whether they're really eligible, >> right? >> Do you have thoughts about this? >> I have very strong thoughts on this. >> I couldn't tell. >> The median home value in this town is upwards of a million dollars. I know the salary being discussed is $120,000. I wasn't very good at math, but that's not it's not If you make him live in this town, there's no way. It's not happening. >> Okay. But it's So, let's talk about the

language. We live We'll live within Essis or in a budding community. >> Okay. >> Are you going to give him a vehicle to travel to and from work with to respond to emergency um incidents because he's on call 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year? >> Yeah. >> There's there's tra there's trade-offs, >> right? >> Um you could you say we'll live within a reasonable response time. >> What's reasonable? >> You specifics? Um, I don't know. I mean, I'm This is your I mean, you tell us what >> reasonable for chief >> chief. I mean, it it it depends. I mean, my full-time job, my chief lives in he lives in town. I live here. Um, the chief in Ipsswitch lives in Salem, New

Hampshire. Is that reasonable? >> No. might have it in his contract that he can live so far away as long as his deputy chief lives in town. I mean, these are things, >> right? >> I guess the expectation for me is like what what are you expecting this person to respond to when it's not office hours? Do you know what I mean? Like, are you expecting this person to drive from Salem down or are they just saying you got this? Do you know what I'm saying? Could you put in per within 30 minutes and then you know if you got a superstar and you had to adjust that to 40 minutes it is like Nick just gave an example chief is an hour away. >> Yeah.

>> Technically chief is just supposed to show up and sign everybody's paycheck right. Which is funny because you guys have just delineated that you want a working fire chief. >> Want a working fire chief or do you want a guy that does office work Monday through Friday and then goes home and clocks out for the >> Want a working chief? >> Okay. >> So, this should be >> I like the preference idea. Can we do that with a pre Well, >> preference for all three of these. No, >> with response with with where they live >> where they live in response. You have to, if you're going to do that, you'd have to say they need to live in this box. >> Okay?

>> You can't cuz they're going to come in and they're going to say, "I'm as qualified or more qualified than this other person." And you can't be wishy-washy that you threw them out because of something that was not >> nailed down. It's going to be based on who's the most qualified. >> Yeah. >> And to Nick's point, what about is the vehicle going to come into question if if >> Well, that's the thing. I mean, you know, our police chief has has a vehicle. Is that is that different? Um, our police chief has always had a vehicle. The fire department has not had that because we haven't had a full-time chief. But it is an expensive proposition. >> It's usually a larger SUV that I see

used. And I think you probably want to hear from the finance committee about about that because uh let's go back to the to the uh superintendent of public works. We had some people who probably would have taken the job if if you were going to give them a vehicle, but they wanted to be like live in like Wilmington or Tukbury >> and commute back and forth on the town's dime. And the board was like no I mean no u this is different. I mean, all three of those positions have a role in an emergency, but at what level does the town of Essex want to put up for those response capabilities? >> I think we said when we were talking about this that we did not want to talk about the truck or some sort of vehicle.

Now, >> that's what we did say. >> Is there any current vehicle in the fleet that could serve as that? Yeah, you could get away with squad two, which is the pickup truck. >> It's a be >> She's a be Clark. But yes, as a start, yeah, I know a lot of fire departments to get started. Some take donated vehicles down as the police department starts to rotate their cars down. Manchester did that to start. But again, that's >> So you could consider that, but you could also consider that the police department at one point in the early days did not did not have a chief's vehicle either. And so maybe you start with nothing. Maybe you start with some donated thing. There's still going to be

maintenance and gas. And depending on how far away the person lives, you may or may not want to live with that. >> Could you use that as a negotiation um factor if you found somebody and we needed to come up with something? >> Well, clearly it became a factor in the superintendent thing. This is a little different. >> Yeah. >> Um, yeah, you could. You could, but the finance committee is going to want >> But could we? >> I don't know where the money come from. >> I'm talking about if we had a a vehicle that was already here >> currently. >> Yeah. >> Mean the vehicle >> something to consider. Yeah. Certainly the position description is not going to

say you get a vehicle. Okay. >> And you get a vehicle. Yeah. that's going to be worked out when the person wants to negotiate a contract because that's normally where it gets named if it gets in at all. >> So, do we want to remove the where you'll live? >> Well, right now it says we we'll live within Essex or an abuing community or within a reasonable response time as determined by the board of selectmen. I'm bringing that up now so that you're not surprised later to say, "Well, wait a minute. We have to determine this." >> You could try to nail it down now. You could just say, "Well, okay, we realize that and we'd rather have more applicants than less." >> Okay.

>> You could model it after the civil service language as well that says within 15 miles as the crow flies. That actually gets you into parts of >> New Hampshire, >> southern New Hampshire. Seabbrook, New Hampshire is 15 miles directly across >> and that's going to get you places like Beverly, I would imagine, certainly Gloucester. And so now you're in you've got a mix of places where somebody could live and there's a mix of affordability. >> Okay, >> it's not a bad idea. We'll put some um we'll put some optional language in when when we come back next time so that you can choose um

in the place where it talks about required education training experience versus preferred. It says in preferred experience, supervising, call or combination departments. I understand that certainly would would be preferred. Do you want all of your applicants to have that experience because they're going to be managing a call department or are you willing to deal with someone who has never been in that culture? I'm not so sure that's a great idea. >> It's preferred. >> Yes, but you want to make it minimal. You you'd rather hear from that person is what you're saying. Okay. >> Yeah. And I think the the language in there is management of, right? So you could be on a call department and not

necessarily managed a call department and still have the culture. So >> okay. Uh let's see. I think under where it talks about um there are places where it says paid on call throughout and we we're going to clarify that. Um there was under skills there were you know there was discussion of certain software and if this comes back in I want to add Northshore 911 software anything that they deal with. Um those are the specific things that I had. I would say generally we went from something that was super detailed to something that I think is super condensed and I think we have to hit a

happy medium but I think it's needs to be a collaborative process. >> Yeah, I agree and I think you know our our intent was more to get it into a manageable state and and certainly your work on actually marrying them together properly. Uh >> at least we can see what it was and you know and we can make changes there. I think this will be productive >> and I don't know if the finance committee had any thing to say about what you've seen or what you've heard so far in case there are budgetary implications. I I think the only thing that um Josh and I had uh looked at the job description was really the call versus on call just because we do have on call um stipens. We wanted the language to be

clear um and the deputy the chain of command where we don't have that deputy chief position. >> Right. I just wanted I think that clarity there is going to be important because I don't think at this moment our intent is to be looking to to find a deputy. >> Well, you don't want a job description to essentially lock you into something that you may or may not or it might evolve over time. That type of thing. All right. So, I've noted those anyway. So, we'll make sure that we discuss that. >> Just a quick question on we do have deputy chiefs currently, right? >> I mean, and I'm not asking. I'm just making sure. >> You absolutely do. You absolutely do. That was just misunderstanding.

>> But you won't. >> In the strong chief statute, it talks about the fact that you will have a deputy chief and it's more about I think a paid deputy chief like another full-time person. >> Okay. >> And we're trying to differentiate between the two. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, and we're not looking for that. We just want to make sure that the structure uh from a leadership standpoint still has adequate leadership. >> Right. Right. And I think that that will be borne out by the chief that is hired and it certainly can be asked about during the interview process. >> Yeah. And you may want to uh you may want to dictate that a little bit or at least think about dictating that a

little bit so that you have uh the ability for call folks to be in a position um so that there's kind of that checks and balances organically through that. >> Yes. And I think that when the chief comes on since the chief serves at the pleasure of the board of selectmen, they come with a proposal XYZ and then the selectman say yes or no or whatever whatever comes. All right. So I think that there's going to be a process for talking about chain of command anyway but not necessarily in the position description. Okay. >> Um I have a question or request. Can you give us um just uh clarification as to what is a call force just definitions so

that when we go back to this we are all we all know what we're talking about on call and then whatever the third term is which was just definition >> well there's there's obviously full there's full-time paid staff. >> Yeah. Yeah. But there's >> is call firefighters and then we use the term on call for just people who who agree to work at night if called upon and they're getting some money to put their time aside, their availability aside. But I guess on call could also be a term for paid full-time staff. That's what I'm hearing. >> Yeah. >> I don't Yeah. So, I mean, the three definitions that I'm familiar with are call, volunteer, and full-time professional type deal. So, the on call

versus call is probably just the same thing by and large. >> Um, and what was the other one in there? >> On call, call force, and then I think just plain call. >> Yeah. So, the call force would be the the group as in its totality. >> Yeah. And then um the on call versus call is is really just a status thereof, right? They're they're an on call force versus >> you know call is probably a a slang of some sort. >> Um but they're all pretty much the same thing from >> we'll make it clear. I think we can define, you know, what we're talking about and make it clear so people don't have an idea that, oh, well, these are,

for whatever reason, I interpret that to be uh >> two different department, >> right, workforce. >> Yeah. So, we'll we'll work that out. Um, anything else on the position description? Because I think there now needs to be discussion about the operating budget and how the what we think is around $50,000 deficit in FY28 uh is going to be handled if the fire department wants two people on for each of the weekday shifts. So, um, we had a pretty robust discussion about this downstairs, um, with board of engineers and, um, the the real crux of the matter is, you know,

where are you going to carve out $50,000 in a $641,000 fire budget, add the $172 for your ambulance, even though they're two separate budgets, you know, I think we need to look at them as a whole. Um, I think that it's Uh it's a tough ask because the training budget was just increased substantially this year with this budget along with the $120,000 position. However, I think the charge still is to find $50,000 out of those budgets. And I think it's in if you want two day shifts 5 days a week then you

have to find 50 else you don't have two day shifts. Um, so we've said to the board of engineers, you know, where would you like to where would you like to cut? And understandably, you know, they're hesitant on where to cut. And we don't have enough hard data to say, well, the salary line item is heavy this year because, you know, the model is the model and we don't have data to support the model. We just have estimates or we look at the training budget and it's budgeted for an example you know 12 monthly trainings four hours every training for 22 or 25 people. Do

22 or 25 people really show up? Can you manage that as a you know sign up 15 you know first 15 people sign up and and how does that affect your your force? You know how does it affect morale? How does it affect your preparedness? Jump in any time, Christian, if I'm going off the rails here. Um, >> did I miss anything? So, we don't have a proposal. Um, I suggested a couple of things. We s we talked about um our ambulance billing rate. We talked about this earlier in the year and Christian's going to have a look at that to see if we're billing at a competitive rate or we're below market. Um that's just what's build out to insurance um you

know versus Medicare, Medicaid. Um additionally some fees that we had talked about earlier in the year moving um fees to the actual users as opposed to on the taxpayers much like Harbor. Um so you know we again don't have numbers in a system so we don't know exactly how many say dumpsters you know would have required a fee but um Christian is going to look at that as well. Um other than that you know >> so I and I think the purpose of the discussion obviously finding the $50,000 will be a process that is undertaken throughout the budget preparation season

but the selectman want to know do we move forward with the chief knowing uh that there needs to be some idea that cuts can be made to accommodate both the chief and the two people on the weekday shift which is what is desired. So maybe the selectman have questions about that because uh after next meeting if we come out with a position description, we're talking about starting to advertise and we're not going to advertise unless you're comfortable with how it shakes out now and then from February 1st to June 30th and then next fiscal year. >> Right? And we actually have to be ready for town meeting to answer that question. So >> and the question is not just for this year but for next year and the year

after. Right. >> Correct. >> So um so we can make as a finance committee we can make suggestions but you know we we do defer to uh the the chief and the board of engineers to guide uh where where would be the most or least painful areas. Um >> well I guess my question to the board of engineers is um my understanding is that from the company the two shifts were part of the package of the the chief right that that's kind of a all or not all or nothing because it wasn't presented like that but this is what we think is best. So,

it sounds like there's been significant um a significant rise year-over-year for the fire department to accommodate their needs. And so, can we move see it as moving money to to make sure that that happens? It sounds like there should be. Is that a fair thing to look at it? you you got to give up something to and I guess my other question is and I think I asked this this data came through for us um about um training because I had a question about you know we keep saying hey yeah let's let's add that person but what's our obligation to pay for training um and is

there some sort of a moment when you're like okay I've got so many people but only so many training dollars how do I balance not accepting more but giving them the training that I'm required to provide. I guess I I don't understand the um obligation that you have to pay for training or if it's train the trainer kind of stuff. So you're not paying for someone to come in and do training that the cost is really about who shows up. Does that makes do those questions make sense? >> Yes. And I'll do my best to answer them and then you let me know if I'm not answering your actual question. So from a requirement standpoint, we we want uh people to be fire academy trained if they're going to be a

firefighter. So fire one two I'm going to approximate the number of hours about 240 I believe is the number. Um and we put those folks through. There's no cost for the class itself because it's a state-run academy. Uh but there is the costs of uh outfitting someone with new uh turnout gear or PPE because it's required by them. If they haven't been hired within the last year, then there's the cost of putting them through an NFPA um medical exam and then we pay them uh hourly uh as they are going through the academy or technically pay them at the end. Um so that's the fire

academy side on the EMS side. Uh we have typically sent them to McNeely or they have gone to Northshore Community College or whatever the case may be and we pay them for their hourly time there which is I want to say 120 150 and then we pay for the EMT class as well. U as far as those are the two big trainings, unless I'm missing anything that we pay for outside of the monthly meetings uh or monthly trainings quarterlies. Um cuz you know even though it's 240 hours, you're still kind of there's still a lot

to learn on the job. There's still a lot of equipment to learn. there's uh the driver training requirements uh to get signed off on a vehicle so that we're not just sending uh Joemo out without any training in a you know anywhere from 3/4 of a million to $1.4 million vehicle. >> Have some follow-ups. Do we know what a cost per person is in in a year? >> Do we know what train was spent last year and maybe the year before and the year before that on training you have that >> I don't know what kind >> 24 393 25 246

uh the actual budget adopted in 26 was 32 this year's budget >> 32,000 and 86,07 is approved for this year >> 86 >> from 32 >> okay so >> I think one thing to be asked is okay so there's firefighter one and two there's EMT training there are also other trainings that you do and we we heard from the fire company that they feel that that's very important because now you're learning about other things specialty things hazard materials all that are there certain things though like that is that 86 it must include some of those things that are over and above one and two in EMT >> yes so part of what uh and I think we

talked about You talked about hazmat. So there's a requirement. Uh they get 24 hours. They get a hazmat responder level uh operations level in the fire academy which is 24 hours. There is a requirement by NFPA that they take an 8 hour refresher on an annual basis. U compliance with that has been challenging. So part of that money coming in is training every one of those certified firefighters to maintain that certification. Uh the cost of the class itself. So, >> but is that mandatory? It's an NFPA standard, but is it different somehow than the one and two? I'm not saying not do it, but we're going to have to find a way to modulate it because we got to come up with $50,000. So,

>> right. So, it's it's an NFPA standard, but also backed up by OSHA. So, um both are >> that's Yep. >> Y >> um Sorry. Go ahead. I I just wondered um maybe there are efficiencies with training um such as u making sure there's a senior member on shift with a junior member who requires driver training and they can get driver training while they are being paid on a shift maybe. Do we um want every firefighter to be an EMT or if we already have 30 EMTs, do we really need 45? You know, I don't know what the answer. >> And you already raised the point of okay, well, does the budget of $86,000

include well, okay, 35 people are going to show up every time. That's why the budget is so big, but 35 people don't show up. This is what you pointed out. How many people do show up on your average training? What's a high number? >> Probably 25. We had 25 at tanker training the other night. Um, so >> we happen to know if the budget was developed for a number larger than that. >> No, it was developed >> 22. Okay. So, it doesn't seem like there's a lot there. >> That was a 4-hour training. I mean, and that was not too far off from, you know, what happens normally, but there It is difficult because there's a lot of requirements that come down at us. There's an there's the OEMS requirement

uh for reertification as well as the fire requirements. So um I I do think that there's absolutely opportunity to kind of go through and work collaboratively with uh rep and you know boss whoever to kind of identify through either increase in the ambulance revenue and kind of try to efficiencies in the existing budget as well. But um you know we part of why we increased the budget so dramatically in some areas is after we did the proforma with fin to identify where were the gaps that left us short last year and make sure that moving forward we didn't have that same gap. So it's, you know, we can

step backwards or or kind of like look to try to make it more manageable, but we just I'd like to keep that in mind because I definitely don't want to be, you know, faced with a shortfall moving forward. >> I mean, you you mentioned three different places. Limiting training, can some money be shaved, maybe fees to the user? So, we're going to talk about that next, like how much is carried for town events on the public dime and the ambulance offset. How much do you think we'll gain there? >> Well, we were we were talking about it and I think um I think we have an average of 285 calls a year. I don't know what the percentage is of, you know, is that how many what the percentage is of the full boat? We don't

have those numbers. So, full boat, you know, $1,100 or whatever the $1,500 per um ride. But if you can increase that 75% of those calls by $200, you but again, you know, we'll really need to juggle those two budgets because they're budgeted separately. And I think you and I talked about this last year, Brendan, why we can't cobble together the budgets, which would be easier to manage when you need to shift things. But um >> certainly EMT training could come out of that, >> right? But at the end of the day, you still have, you know, x number of trainings. And I'm also wondering, I guess the other piece is, is there a

hierarchy of, you know, training, what people need, what people must have, you know, so that you make sure that you're filling your training with the people who absolutely need that training now as opposed to don't need it. >> And that's the type of thing they're going to need to figure out. And another way to look at it, if it's $50,000 and we're looking at major categories of limiting training somehow, switching switching some things that are covered by the budget to users and some kind of ambulance offset, that's about 16,700 for each category will get you to the $50,000. >> Do you really think you're going to generate $16,000 in fees? depends on how much is currently covered uh for people

um that are covering events. >> Yeah. I mean I'm just I don't I don't think fees ever like >> the answer there's zero. Now Brendan >> you're not going to get anything. >> We're not getting nothing in community. >> Yeah. So you're not going to get anything out of that. >> But I do want to ask a question relevant to Jod's about um so you you you know you get a new hire, right? And you've got a probationary period. Like I don't and you want to get somebody on the uh you know moving but you don't but you want to test to see is this person really worth investing in. What's the kind of what is the kind of what are the gates they have to go through to get to be training worthy? Does that makes does

my question make sense? Because some people may be just on a lark deciding to do this but don't really commit. >> Yeah. So most recently we've had uh this last go round of interviews people have either come to us with EMT certifications. Um and then if that's the case then we're going to get them up to speed on our ambulance so that they are uh ready to go on that side. Make sure that they if they don't have experience that they've kind of gone through the process that we have set forth on that. Um if they don't have EMT then that's where we're going to start them. And then fire is secondary. So we do have a kind of progressive path on um training and then as far as you know the

EMS training is the less expensive of the two. So we will start with that and then kind of if it doesn't look like it's going to be a good fit, there's not a comprehension, whatever the case may be, then we would throttle back and kind of figure out maybe you just live here or you you move forward. And we do uh you know Jody talked about kind of training on you know having that senior person. We have this year really shifted a lot of our training to on duty um which has been successful. So you know it's a good point. It's just we are already adopting that to the best of our ability uh and kind of minimizing the training outside of ours. Um we we limit that to people who just can't train because they have full-time jobs.

I guess the other piece that we don't know is um how many people are coming out for training at the $32 an hour when they were being paid 2462 before and is that generating a larger response to come to training because of the wage change. So we don't have that data but that you know could be a a driver for additional people showing up for training. So you mentioned that you had a robust disc discussion about this whole matter and that there was agreement that 50,000 has to be trimmed. >> It's an if they want the then else scenario. Absolutely. Not trimmed moved. >> Moved. >> So the finance committee has that opinion. Board board of engineers.

>> Do you agree? Is there a way to find 50,000? Because the selectman need to know uh whether that's plausible. We can discuss it on one >> we can discuss it on uh a meeting Wednesday morning. Um there is a couple of ideas but you know takes some work >> because right now we're going to try to get a position description out at the next meeting which is October 5th and then start a hiring process. And so we're kind of at the end here and we need to know from the board of engineers whether you think when you develop FY28 you can develop it uh with it's going to be basically this year's number minus 50,000 2% tacked onto that.

>> You already said you're not good at math. the 2% for for >> cola. >> Yeah. >> I think 12 >> I don't want anybody to hear me doing this. >> The net Yeah. The net difference will be um if you add if you take the two what's the total budget number right now? It's the came up with >> is 12,000. So it's 50,000 minus 12 is the is the amount less. >> So it's well I think we went the other way. >> Okay. >> 12,000 or 62.

>> Sorry. >> Uh 62 was the front end number and then backed off the 2% got us to 50. is is my understanding. But >> yeah, what I'm saying is you're you'll be expecting some level of an increase because of COLA and increase to expense lines. Um, and the T, you know, town departments generally, even though we have 2 and a half% under Proposition 2 and a half, town departments generally come in at 2% for wages and actually less than 2% for expenses. But you're getting the whopping deal of 2% on the whole thing. How about that? >> Better shake on that one quick. >> Is that the number?

>> So that's that's just conceptual. So we're going to need the board of engineers to say whether you Yep. We're going to we're going to turn out a budget this year that is going to meet that criteria when you meet. So that if we get a position description off the ground at the next selectman's meeting, we are launching into a hiring process. >> So the we meet on Wednesday, the fire company meets on Thursday. I mean, >> okay. >> We would like to get obviously fire company >> y >> weigh in on this. >> So by the next selectman's meeting, you'll have everything you need to say whether you think you can do it because that's what selectman I don't know if

you have any other questions, but you're I believe looking to make sure that if it's going to go that way, the two people on plus the chief, there's a way to actually get to that number >> without a without an increase over the 2%. All right. All right. So, then the last thing that was on there has to do with events that are held in the town. And the events, uh, I listed some and then Christian gave me some more. They include things like, "Okay, we have an Easter egg hunt sometimes, but I don't think that >> No, >> that's that's like maybe the police on the shift would come watch that." Um, >> yeah, maybe. >> Uh, we have River Day, The Car Show,

Happy as a Clam, Clamfest, Halloween, Turkey Trot, Santa's Arrival, other ship building events, ALS for ALS, the Ukan race, the bike road races, and the polar plunge. That's as exhaustive a list as as we've had in a long time. And the question is which events that take place in the town should have the benefit of public funding. >> Do you know how much you're spending on all those now? I don't off the top of my head but I think uh if you go through the list um we can tell you that Yukon run uh ALS for ALS >> polar plunge >> polar plunge was a duty group situation

typically I think right Ernie >> a few extra >> yeah um the the Yukon race and the A's for ALS for ALS have in uh detail at the the event coordinators uh cost. Um I think clamfest is probably one of the you know bigger ones. >> So if it's all right so let's take a step back. If it's duty group you're talking about two people that are happen to be on for that time. Right. >> Correct. >> So uh is everybody okay with an event where it's only deemed that the duty group is necessary whether that's police or fire? That is public funding to kind of watch over an event, but those people were being paid anyway because they were

there anyway. >> Is everybody okay with that? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. So, then we're talking about uh an event where extra people need to be put on. Are there specific events where you say we absolutely need to put those people on at the town's expense and then everything else that you don't think is important enough would have to be built back for extra people other specific events. >> Can I ask a question about um staffing of these things? So could you say minimum charge for um but if but if these factors then it's additional um you know >> staffing.

>> Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Like some things are more like the polar plunge is more >> risky I think than Halloween, right? >> Yeah. I think uh it depends, but certainly um I think you know kind of what we talked about a little bit last time and and uh firefighter Ducet brought up was a permitting process. And I think if we look at that um and kind of have public safety, police, fire involved in that permitting process, that'll give us the opportunity to kind of go through and say, okay, you know, baseball game at the baseball field that you know someone's trying to do. Great. No problem. Check. goodbye. Uh but then you kind of get into more of the polar plunge situation and the forecast is

negative -30 because it's you know whatever that's going to be a deciding factor on you know ambulance and or you know whatever. >> So having that permit process kind of works allows us to work through that. Um >> that allows you to give the applicant a sense of what they might need to pay. Yeah. But my point is, if the selectman determine that there are only x number of events, you name them, >> that public money should be put into, yes, we're going to have a permitting process, but we already know that if it's not one of those, they're paying >> and and then that would allow you to build your budgets for FY28 as well. >> They're paying or it goes away. And >> Right.

>> Well, sure. If you want to do this, it's going to cost you, >> right? Right. But I think that the permit I think that what um they were talking about was what would actually require a fire detail as opposed to a you know a mandatory versus not mandatory fire detail. So if they have something with an open flame they absolutely need you know if they're going to have fire pits they need a fire detail versus not I think was part of that permitting process which I do think it you know it's a determining factor. sort of like way back when when we talked about the um one day permits back when we were in the temporary town hall, you know, it was one day for alcohol, one day for food, but they were they

were not mutually exclusive and they didn't ever cross over. Instead, we said, are you applying for one day alcohol as well as a one-day food? So that it's an all-inclusive >> and I agree we need that and that can be put together for really next season. Y, >> but it still remains which events do we want to pay for with public money? >> Can I propose River Day, the car show? >> I can be >> Sounds great. >> convinced otherwise, but Happy as a Clam is a school event with people running through town. So, >> Halloween. >> Yep. Halloween. And then Santa. That leaves off the turkey trot, which is also um a lion's event. They don't have a have a lot of money and their money

goes to scholarships. So, I mean, I did put them on the list, but that would be kind of like the same problem we had with um the car show. You're eating into my profits by having um >> Do you make part of the permanent do you make part of the permanating process that decision the board of selectments making that decision real time based on the event? I don't think you can because >> if there's going to be any provision by the town with public funds, it has to be budgeted in advance. >> And the problem is if there's zero dollars in there right now in FY27 for public support of events, >> now you're fighting against that 50 grand because the more events you pick, the more that you you should be

budgeting to cover those events. >> So that's presents a problem. >> Yeah. Are you honestly >> problem? >> Well, it's it's a problem with getting 50,000 shaved off of FY28 if you're going to add because FY27 is largely gone and we're going to manage what with what we have, but >> FY28 is going to be a permitting process and anything that's not chosen as a town event will be paid for by the applicant. We need to know how much to budget for those things that you're going to select. And right now, the budget is zero. So, I would select less. >> So, what would you I mean, the ones that I just said, the five that I said, you said you do choose fewer than that.

>> Yeah, because each one of these events is going to cost several thousand dollars, right? No. >> Well, the the car shows off the table because that's you've got that budgeted, right? >> That's next year. We're talking next year. >> That's police. The fire department doesn't know. I know. >> Okay. But so, let's think about things like Riverdale. You could have sponsors, which we have never done before. Um, and sponsors could pay for things like that. Do you know what I mean? You could, >> um, happy as a clam, you could you could ask them to pay for that. But the thing is, if we're going to ask for fire, they also have police coverage, too. I mean, I know you have it in your budget, but

is is that fair to assume that the town will cover that, but not cover you? So for example, happy as a claim, they request traffic control by the CBA. That has to be a detail. So that's automatically paid for the requester. So a lot of our instances are pretty cookie cutter. If there's a liquor license, board of selectman will say you need to have a police detail for the license. Uh if it's anything to do with any roadway, directing traffic, road race, bike, anything on the roads require a police detail. And I know that's kind of apples and oranges because fire sends four members per apparatus or you know depending on what the needs were at the time. So it it looks more efficient on the police side, but it's really not the

same coverage. >> Do you have a public sa Don't you have a public safety committee? >> We had one, but it doesn't meet anymore. It's it's >> What did you have the other day? >> The safety committee that's just keeping everybody safe in the work environment. >> Oh, >> it's not a Yeah. private >> public safety has a seat at that table, but it's not to discuss that. >> Um, so just looking at our own historical data very lightly, the police budget was uh the car show, turkey trot, which I believe is the lions and Halloween are paid out of our budget, community policing money. Everything else for us is a detail. So I don't think it's as big as people might think.

Well, I think Christian, you were about to say how much each one of these events is roughly. If we look at Riverdale car show, Happy as a Clam, Halloween, and Santa, >> yeah. So, figure 32 bucks an hour times, you know, a couple hours depending on the length of the event, right? Santa is uh pretty quick. um some of the other ones. >> So if it's and and in keeping with your policy, if it's considered a town event, it will be at the regular firefighter rate. Correct. >> Anything else will be paid at the detail rate, which is back build to the user anyway, >> right? >> Okay. So each one of these events, the

car shows a little bit longer. I mean, if it's 32 bucks times four people times 4 hours, that's 512. >> Yep. So 512 would be, you know, that, right? So if it's an event that just needs the ambulance standing by, like a polar plunge, cut that in half and you know, your your hourly rate is going to be 60. >> Halloween is >> two people. >> Two people. Okay. Happy as a clam, two people. Uh that race requires three to four typically because traffic control >> 1,024 for the car show. Happy as a clam. Halloween is you said >> two >> two. So that's that's another 250.

>> So that's like 1,300 bucks. Santa is two. So, uh, that's another 250 like 1500. And then River Day is how many? >> That was six, right? >> Because that's a big bonfire and everything. >> Yeah, River Day we did have, uh, one, two, three, four, probably four there anyways. Uh, but four to five would be fine. >> So, 2500 bucks is what we're talking about for those events. >> So, it's eating into the 25 to the 50,000, but not by a whole bunch. I the finest seen less than 16,000. >> Do you >> could we have a spreadsheet that's like lists all this stuff and with the police and the fire and how it's being paid for? I would that would make help me

understand this. >> But it's not going to be a lot of money. >> Do you want how it's being paid for? >> Sure. >> How it's being paid for or how much? >> Both. >> All of it. >> That's unfortunate. >> Okay. No, it's fine. And I think um how it's being paid for is you know last year everything was being paid for out of our budget aside from the few like ALS for ALS and stuff like that. pretty easy, >> right? We'll work that out so that when you decide whether to go forward with the chief's position description and the chief's hiring, maybe at the next meeting, you'll have this information as well. And you will also have the information on whether they think it's

plausible to shave off or reallocate 50,000 bucks. >> Do you have something to say? >> I did, but I lost it. >> Okay, you'll remember in a minute. Um and um >> it's contagious. >> That happened to me. >> Probably a good thing. Um >> we don't h currently have a permitting process, right? Nothing like that. >> Oh, that was >> do we charge an admin administrative fee? That might be something you guys might want to look at going forward when you develop it. Is the community right next door charges a 10% administrative fee. Um, so they're going to do a blasting detail. They tell the blaster it's going to be the

overtime rate, minimum of four, so he can have a general budget when he pulls the permit. There's a 10% fee on top of that for them to do the paper. >> And the police do that already with police details. So >> I believe this bill for fire. >> Yeah, we've been doing it for fire from a blasting standpoint, etc. >> So in terms of the the permitting and the fees, I mean, I hate fees because I feel like you're Some people see it as gouging. So, I'd like to know justification for why you're charging the fee. Like, there's a reason, right? Um I would like to help with that process. I don't know who owns this that permitting process, but um I was thinking that for next season,

>> yes, >> I'm going to start now working on a form and a and a flow of of work on that >> that will involve all the departments that are necessary. Thank you. We good with that? We good? >> So that's it for fire engineers and then then the finance is going to talk about the town meeting. >> Yep. Okay. Thanks everybody. Thank you very much. I know it's been a brutal night.

Oh, do you guys I don't think they I don't think they adjourned whatever you do. >> What was their own? >> Once they leave, they're >> adjourned. >> Okay. So, how do you want to handle this? How do you want to go through this? >> All right. So, do you want to go through article by article? >> Yeah, let's do that. >> All right. So, as the finance committee has probably seen, we're looking at a new um format for the warrant. There's a cover page, there's an index, and then there's a explanation of an explanation of each article. There will be on the monetary summary, a new column that says which boards and committees have supported supported a given article. Now, the

first six articles are planning board. I doubt you have any um their zoning bylaws. I doubt you have any comment on that. The seventh is the is a very big spending article for the replacement of the Essex Elementary School. Presently, our understanding is that we're going to they're going to come up up with a final number. You said tomorrow night. >> Yeah. So, we were at 98.9 last week and they did value engineering on Thursday and got it to I think close to 95 and then there's a few more things. One of which may be splitting the baby. Um, it's like 800,000. There may be some compromise on that. So, I think we're at 95 right now, but we'll know solid

tomorrow night at the end of the night. Then whatever the number is, you take off 20% for the MSBA contribution and then onethird of that remainder is funded by the town of Essex. >> And then the other thing is to just when you guys met as a finance um as a committee with the finance financing company, you how how you were borrowing had been decided >> back in March. We talked about it. Yes. >> But that was banned. Correct. it was we didn't think the environment was going to get any better and so I think they wanted to do some limited bands during construction and then get that whole amount of money as soon as

possible. >> There's you're right there's an amount of time that you can hold on to and if it's going to be a a rate game um as far as rolling into long-term debt. You're right. And we were told by the um school district administration that as soon as we get a final number, they will rerun uh the financing that we talked about back in March against that number so that we'll actually be able to project out in each fiscal year approximately how much the average taxpayer would have to pay. And it's got obviously going to ramp up until we're at full build and then go from there. But we'll be able to

have that because people are going to say, "Well, what's my what's this going to do to my taxes?" Well, in the first few years, it's going to be more benign than it is in the out years when we get to full full repayment. And didn't um did Michelle say that you guys were going to have a meeting at the end of this week again with with um Cinder or was that something that was >> She said that they were going to feed it right to Cinder so we could get the information. Um but yeah, if it takes a meeting >> we were going to meet. She said we were going to meet with Cinder. And then Mike, do you have any opinion though on any other firm that we may want to um use? Because she Michelle did bring that

up. And and Pam, if there was another firm because I think when you and I spoke about this, you said that was our our one opportunity to perhaps save some money by using a different firm. >> Um sometimes you can save some money. The market from municipal bonds is the market. um you would assume that all two firms, three firms have equal execution abilities, but sometimes if if a firm who's bidding for this business knows that there's competition, you can save a hundred,000, which I do think is is material. So, if possible, I think it should be shopped to the two or you know, two or three firms. Right. >> That being said, um what's going on with

the that sector is that the number of firms that do this has contracted over the last 20. >> My concern though would be we're going to get delivered a number and we need somebody who can handle providing the projections and on our team right away. If you have to go through a process to maybe look at another couple of firms, you know, are we going to get the service we need from the firm that we have now? if they know that they're out the could be out the door, you we're going to need a fluid set of projections from these people and right now they're retained. >> So, we've engaged this uh municipal bond firm. Correct. >> Oh, yes. They're engaged, right? So, we're we're not going to we're not going

to bid this out then. >> I don't I don't think we have the time. >> Well, if you're engaged, you you'd have to break the engagement letter, which is >> barely done. Can you um reach out to Michelle Questa tomorrow and copy Mike and Jody on that? >> If we're engaged then I there's very little of little chance of shopping this this >> right but I think Jod's not >> I'm not I'm not convinced that that um they are engaged. I because Michelle and Pam said at the meeting if you want to use someone else let us know. >> All right. I will I will get the information on that. But if they say, "Oh, yeah, we could do that, but it's going to take four weeks." >> Then guess what? We can't do it.

>> So, >> we're out of time. >> What's our Essex number right now? >> I thought we said >> it's 95 minus 20% times >> a third. So, it's 25 million to Essex. >> How does that compare to Manchester Memorial Post? That gross number. >> Oh, it was a lot less. >> A lot less, but and we only had to pay onethird of a lot less. It was either 50 >> I think it was 50 or 48. >> 48 I believe it was. >> Let me check with Sarah. >> Construction inflation has been crazy in that time. >> Yeah. >> Crazy. >> And actually when we were at a collaboration meeting I ran some quick math just using I think it was a 10% factor for for escalation

and uh it came out roughly to where they ended up. I would just point out >> that was 2021. >> Time is not our ally here just with what rates have been doing. If you go back since 2022, >> we had a secular downturn in rates and now we are on a secular uptick. I don't think it's worth bidding this out to save a1 or $200,000 when the big picture financing we need to get that in place. And bans basically just bridge you to the bond issue, whatever that date is actually going to be. We just don't want that to be too far out. >> Far out.

>> Yeah. >> And I would agree with Ben. And I I think rates are if the Treasury pressures in our debt, I think treasuries are going to drive higher municipal rates. >> Yeah. All right. So, I will get that information about the engagement and what it would take even if they can break it just for everybody to see. Are there any other questions on that article? >> I have one question and that is that um we both communities have smart incomes. Do we want to have a a joint meeting with them before um November 16th. Do you guys feel like you want to do that with the Manchester fin or you don't have to? I'm just wondering. >> Um I'm not sure of what the advantage of

that would be at this point. I think they're so worried about marketing. Um we're we're really numbers organization over here and they're really worried about the marketing piece of this that I don't want to derail them but and I we tried to do the joint meeting with the question and answers >> and they didn't >> they weren't excited. Annie, what year was the vote for memorial? >> I don't know. Was it >> 2019 maybe? >> I'm asking Let me ask Sarah. >> No, I'm I I have the um I have it right here. I travel with stuff like this. Who was on that committee? Well, you were you're you're just as responsible for your memory.

>> Um public safety >> 2015. >> No, that's too early. >> That's too early. I can look it up but not >> my mind is >> I think they were sequentially >> all right so there's that one article 8 adoption of the fire chief statute I think you've heard what what the challenge is there and we're going to get some more information from the board of fire engineers the elderly and disabled taxation fund is article 9 um this is a fund that is contributed to by private donations and then there has to be a group a committee, some of which are prescribed in the law as to who they are, uh, would figure out how to dole

out whatever comes in. Any questions on that? It would be donated money, not coming from the tax. >> How often does the money have to go out that's delivered in, donated in? >> You can, if there's not any money, you can't do anything out. So it it's I think it's at the discretion of that committee and they actually determine all of those factors. Okay. >> Once you seat them that you're just voting to like pass this then that committee um >> right but the committee is certain u members are prescribed by yeah law. So >> I just didn't know whether they made you do something with it >> you know fre on some schedule. >> This is the one where had this and

they've disbanded it. Is that right? Well, >> is there going to be like a threshold before they actually, you know, >> I think they have to determine all that. >> They would determine that. That's what that >> if you only have 200 bucks in there, no one's going to start giving that out. >> It's not going to be an in town committee. >> Yes, it is. It has to be. That's what the law says. >> Yeah. One person, the the chair of the board of assessors, um I think the treasurer, so that's Brooke, and then three folks. And we talked a little bit about what would those Oh, sorry, Mike. You were there. three of the folks that would be appropriate like what were the

qualifications but that is really not the job of this working group. It's just yeah it's the people that they >> I just wanted to be clear on what it was. >> Um just so that you know go back Manchester Memorial was voted in October of 2018. It was 13.2 million to Essex. >> Wow. >> Big difference. >> Sure is. >> Um okay. Article 10. the water plant carbon media replacement that comes out of a special fund which we are receiving money like many communities across the country for PAS damages. Um we have had PAS detects but um nothing in finished water. So our our

PAS levels are low enough where they're in the raw water, but our carbon filtration system, which is primarily how you deal with PAS, is taking it out. So this this system is going to be replaced, but not on the general fund then. And I don't have a figure on it yet. I'm waiting for that from from Mandy. Water and sewer rate studies. My understanding is that it could cost $50 or $60,000 to do a pair of studies total for water and sewer. Um, and this would come from partially from water retained earnings and partially from sewer retained earnings. >> And do you want to explain the value of doing this? So it as it was explained to

us by the chairman of the board of public works, the idea is to factor in to the rates on an ongoing basis an amount of money that will over time amass enough so that when you have a capital need, the money is there. If you're just computing rates based on what it takes to get through the operations year, then eventually you're going to run out of money to deal with what we have in Essex, which is basically a replacement of every inch of water mane that we currently have. And so he wants to plan proactively. That's water sewer. You're talking about replacing big pumps, not as much pipes because they're modern plastic pipes. Whereas the water pipes are the um

asbestos concrete transite pipes which have a very long service life but in 2019 I think they said there was about 37 years left and so times tick. So they would like to study that so that they can bring in with each year's rates an appropriate amount of money so that when they need to do each one of these replacement projects the rate payers are helping to fund that. um article 12 public works equipment. We did have listed a winch on a DPW truck that has since come off because they think they can handle that within the budget. They weren't sure how much it was going to be, but they can handle that. Um then the replacement of a generator at the DPW barn and the installation of an automatic transfer

switch. Right now, we have a portable generator, a wheeled unit that was provided to the town in like 2004 as part of the sewer project that they're using to power the barn when there's a power outage. But there's no automatic transfer switch, which requires somebody from the union to come in and flip it on, even if they're not actually doing anything but powering up the barn. uh so that people can continue to come get salt and sand or uh in the in now uh the fuel depot is powered off the barn as well. So it would make sense for them to just get a new generator and an automatic transfer switch. Mandy said looking at

it would be more economical instead of one giant generator because they also want to power the transfer station and not have to close the transfer station when the power's out. Talking to people in the industry, it's going to be less money to buy three generators and three switches. One for the barn that powers the barn and the fuel depot, one for the compactor pad that does the recycling, and one for the transfer station as opposed to one giant generator because once you put one giant generator down, you have to run electrical conduits and that's going to cost a lot more money than short conduits from small generators. So you might see a proposal and this is this is all in the general fund because it's not

water or sewer per se. It's the DPW barn, the fuel depot, the the uh recycling center and the transfer station. I guess you could come up with some money from water or sewer but not a lot. But you're going to see figures on that. >> But you could prioritize too. >> You could. Yes. But this says >> in addition to is that in that 111 is the 1262 or is that is are the generators in addition to that? >> Let me look at my sheet. >> Well, the question there's no breakdown. >> This says replacement of generator that single. So is are there multiple? You just >> there's only one but what they're saying is this is recent thinking >> that I just heard about last week.

>> Oh. They started by saying they started by saying we want to take this portable generator that powers the barn and by extension the fuel depot and replace it and have a new automatic transfer switch. But now they're on to, well, we ought to really be able to run the whole deal when there's no power. And if we're going to go for it, let's go for it. But as Peter just said, we may or may not have enough money to do that. >> And even Mandy agreed if we have to start with the barn and fuel depot, then that's where we would start. >> Okay. And um so Jody, I'll go ahead. >> Also be aware of, >> you know, all those generators that require maintenance going forward. >> Yep. And a contract.

>> Also go into that with eyes wide open saying it's 10,000 a year for the maintenance contract, >> right? And so you got to look at the t total cost. And so Jody, you're talking about uh the 112 111200 in public works equipment. That is just reflective of some of the things that I knew about. And it's not the total. I don't even have the generator cost right now. For instance, the new sidewalk plow. So, by the way, the next thing is the radiator on the water filtration plant generator. They're going to go ahead and do that even before town meeting because they found out over this last storm that it isn't safe. That runs the entire water plant when there's a power outage and it wasn't working very well. So there

that's going to be converted to them looking for money in article 18 to refund one of their lines, but that's going to come out of water retained earnings. >> So what so what's the cost of the repair for the radiator? >> I don't have a number yet on any of these things. I only have a lift. >> Then replace that generator. I mean, what size generator are we talking about? I >> I don't know. >> Okay. Because I know I mean I run an 18k generator and a transfer switch and at cost that's $5,500 for a single generator. The transfer switch is another like $2500. The electrical on that's another $200 or $3,000. So we're talking minimum here of 10 or 12,000. And I think they're going to have a

bigger switch than that. So radiator >> this is not an 18k. This is for the water plant. Yeah. >> It's probably 80 or 100. Well, that's what I mean. I mean, we're not talking short money here, >> okay? >> But they're saying that they want to fix the radiator because the unit has enough service life >> that they're not going to touch the water department. They're going to service. >> They're going to replace the radiator. >> Just the radiator. And I think she said something about 15,000. I'd have to look back at my notes. >> If we're going to chuck all this in one article, can we have this as a table with the cost per item so that >> 100%. But we don't even have no details.

Yes, you'll have a you'll have a table. >> Yeah, sorry. >> Which is the monetary summary, but it won't be in the warrant. We won't even have the numbers. >> No, but the Fincom would like to have the table now. >> Absolutely. But I don't have the >> thing. Also, I want it on this sheet. Yeah. >> Yes. But I don't have all the information. >> It doesn't come from me. Okay. >> Um the sidewalk plow 75,000. >> The dump body I think was 15,000. And then the new removable plastic sanders for some of the dump trucks. There was a figure on that as well. Um, but I can put it I can try to get the rest of the info and put it in a table. >> Thank you. Thank you.

>> All right. >> And and are and are there tradeins on some of this equipment? So, the sidewalk plow, we have two um what are those pieces of >> whackers? Whackers. I hate them. The the two whackers. So, we bought we just bought a brand new whacker for exactly that purpose, right? >> So, what are we what are we doing here for >> number one? Number two, >> I feel like we've got the cart before the horse here. We don't have a professional superintendent yet to say to weigh in on, you know, is this the right equipment? We spent a ton of money last year on subcontractors for snow removal. And I think that I'd really like to slow this role a little bit so that we, you know, this sort of like the

>> and we had hoped to talk to the board of public works about each one of these things, but that got delayed. >> It still has to happen like >> Yeah. So, I'm going to go to Manny and say, "Look, I need the numbers and I'll tabulate it and send that out to everybody." Um, the next one is article 13, the police cruiser. That's going to be at least 70 70 75,000. >> They just got a bill in the warrant for 63, right? >> A bill. I'm sorry. >> In the warrant was the police car last, >> but that had already been appropriated. >> So, you're saying 75? >> Depends on what they want to buy. >> Okay. >> Okay. But we could use the vehicle fund

for that. >> Yes. Yes. Uh then we have community preservation projects. The only thing we're aware of right now is whether or not we the selectman want to apply for erosion control projects at the Centennial Grove, the slope coming down to the beach and the slope coming down from the cottage. They were identified as um detrimental to the lake in a recent study. And it's either going to be the DPW tells us that they have the equipment and personnel to do it and we just need to do materials versus do we need to get a price to shop the whole thing out? And that will come from from the

community preservation fund. Um the special purpose stabilization funds, we have 12 of them. Have you come to any recommendations on that? >> No, we haven't even talked about it. We did 143 last year. I know we cut back on certain. >> You chose to do some and not others. >> Chose to do some and not others. And we didn't get to that part of the discussion tonight. >> Okay. >> Hey, can I just put a plug in here for the fact that we're not going to really if we're going to be passing a building project that's that significant? There's no appetite, I think, for an override for a few years. I don't think so. So, is there any I would like to you consider, you know, if you want to put

some money in that school aortionment fund. Are there other funds that could that we could park some money in get us through? So, we won't be using the school aortionment fund again. What what we found is that setting aside money and then using that money years down the road created a funding cliff the next year. So it it's not advantageous for that. Um I think we could park additional money in things like um uh vehicle so that it doesn't hit you know the taxpayer directly. Uh the technology fund we we fund I mean we were very

careful last year because we knew we're going into another override situation at any rate. Yeah, you you definitely want to stick with one-time things, one-time purchases because it's onetime money that you're getting it from, >> not funding operating budgets. Basically, >> um the reserve fund is generally just brought up back to full, right? I don't know what you spent out of it yet this year. I don't think a lot. >> Uh no, we just did 2,200. >> Yeah. So, what that's usually a small number. The retirey health insurance. So, this is OPED. We thought we were right near the end. I know Brian, you've been looking at it and Jody, you've been looking at it. We got an explanation

from the actuarial company and it's kind of like chasing this thing until you get way over the goal because the basis changes every year. >> Yeah. And I think the you know the what the actuary had said was a 100% funding goal initially but it I think the you know there's there's clear risk in that there's always risk because of market volatility of falling back beneath 100% down to whatever right but yeah >> but >> at 100 that risk gets substantially higher than say 105 or 110. Can I just make a point though about because I was looking at the OPED 2. Um June 30th of 2025 our OPED liability was 1.9 million. Uh

by June 30th of 26 it was 500,000. >> We put a million bucks in. >> I know we put in a million bucks. Right. But my point is we've gone, >> you know, we there has been a lot of market appreciation. So, we've gone from 62% to 90% funded. We're in striking zone. I realize you can't just get to get to 100 and then >> you're done because you're >> It'll always change. And do you really want to Yeah. >> You may have to overfund it or at least just refund it as you go. You know, top it off >> and not count on as much of a draw in that year, which means you're back relying on the general fund again. purposes to get off of the general fund, but until you get to a much higher

level, it's going to be this back and forth. >> Yeah. I mean, there and there's not a massive cash advantage to, you know, to to early funding. I mean, over 10 years if you put a bunch in, you know, different scenarios, but it but what you what you are hedging against is the risk of that one bad year prior to being fully funded, right? So, there's there's a reason to do it, but it's hedging against a risk, you know, a 2% return year that actually puts you back, right? Even when you're even Right. So Mike, >> did they quantify where the comfort level stops? I know actually those are horrible about >> Did you have a chance to share that breakdown that >> that's what I brought with me to think

we hadn't gotten to our >> Do you do you have it to read? >> Oh, I know. >> Because it's not that long. >> This is from that guy. >> This is from the actuarial guy. >> Um >> I think I forwarded it. >> No, no, this is his comments via email crystallizing OPED >> the what the report really means and that's what I thought was really telling. I can find it if >> uh from Parker, right? >> Yes. >> Um he said this was the roll forward year. So the higher than expect expected healthcare renewal for 2026 does not impact the liability results. Had those been reflected, I anticipate that would add about $750,000 to the OPED

liabilities while would reduce plan funding to about 79% and increase the unfunded to about 1.25 million. Falltown meeting appropriation. Obviously, we encourage an appropriation if you can afford it. There's no magic uh to it to the $55,000 as I'd expect the target to be somewhere higher absent of a favorable renewal of the 2027 Medicare supplement plans. OPB investment policy, you're we're not your investment manager, but your portfolio is on the more aggressive side. That's been great in this market. However, as you approach full funding, you may wish to move to a more balanced investment policy model to limit volatility. It's ultimately your call, but given the long road you've been

taken to full funding, we don't want to see a reversal. Acurals versus distributions, you have a relatively mature population such that the annual benefits curls service cost about $115,000 while the pay as you go costs uh is about $340,000. So absent any preunding, you are paying down the unfunded by 225,000 per year simply via paying the current retirey health care versus the annual budget preunding to withdrawals. Once you achieve full funding in the next few years, I expect recent health care cost increases to pu to push it back one or two years. You will then be in a position to seek reimbursement for the pay as you go costs from the OPED trust each year. And the technical mechanics

are that you would fund the service cost and withdraw the pay as you go. Taking out the net does the same thing. When to start withdrawals, there's no magic date, but it will probably be recommended that you would get to 105 to 110% before you begin the annual withdrawal process to allow some margin. >> And that's going to take several year several fiscal years in his estimation. >> So you're not going to hit it this year. >> So we're not going to hit it this year. I think you know that there's there's all kinds of numbers being thrown around here, right? But at the end of the day, what does this mean to the average taxpayer? Because these guys are brainiacs and I'm the 1 plus 1 equals 2

person, right? So, I'm going to boil it down to what this means to taxpayers. And what it really means is that we're going to free up levy capacity when we start to draw. That's right. So, you know, I think that the finance committee long before I was on was their number one priority to fund OPED and be aggressive about it. Um, I came on and didn't know what OPED was. So, so what's your estimate today for what you want to do? >> I thought we were in striking distance, but after hearing that, it seems to me >> I did too. And then I asked him to break >> two or three more years of putting in, you know, 500. You know,

>> we've put in anywhere between 250 and a million. >> Um >> I think you're going to need a 500 cash number. Then we'll know what we put in. >> But >> what would you where where are you thinking? Because last I don't want to walk into this year thinking 250 and you're going to come again at mill a million. Remember that. >> No, I'm thinking I'm thinking more well in my head I've got like 500,000 as a number >> for several years. >> What do you think? >> So I I mean I think it's run. I mean I I built a model where you where we where and that I was going to share in our own where you can change the um the amount per year and it'll it'll it'll it'll

project out based on simulations of the market what year we think that it will >> Did you change the asset allocation to defease the liability? >> Uh yeah a little better conservative >> not not yet um because it was until it's fully funded. So for the I I did about a 10 and a half% volatility which is based on their recent performance their their mix of of stuff and then just kind of other things that size in the market. But I can that's a slide it's a variable we can change too. So I can do this. Did you come up with a number though? >> Uh I mean depends on I I came up with you know with charts like this and say depending on how much we put in and what the return is you can here's a year that

I project. >> So Brian we put in 50 here. >> Yep. Let's just boil this down to average. >> Then I bet you're six years old. So the question is, we put in 250 a year. Is it five years? Is it three years? If we put in 500 a year, maybe two years. >> I think it's 500 for two to three years. >> I think that's right, too. Yeah. >> Just back to the million. >> We were there. >> Yeah. Then he went >> just back to the the million. Remember that was that was an accounting error. So that was a that was a journal entry that wasn't reversed. So we had more free cash than we than we were accounted for. And the state doesn't care if you underestimate your free cash. They only

care if you overestimate that. So it was our one opportunity to get us really close to that finish line and then healthcare bit us int. You know, I I think that um you know, >> but it's worked well for us. >> It has Well, it has to It's done. But there's not going to be like a windfall of money. All I'm saying is don't think we're going to walk into town meeting with $2 million of free cash. >> Oh, I I don't expect >> Well, but but just given what you're looking at, >> I'm hoping it's it's north of one. >> I hope it's north of one, too. And then if we >> And then you have half you do half a million for OP, right? We do that for a couple years and then we're

>> So I we all know kind of where you're where you're at right now kind of sort of. So that's >> to answer the question 250 a year will get you to 98% likelihood of 100% funding by end of 2031 fiscal year >> but we can shorten that by >> den that by by that we can shorten that by different assumptions about what what we also know is that we have a we have a drop off well notwithstanding the new funding for the for the elementary school we know that >> we would want that levy capacity to free up around 2029 2030 do it, which is why we want to put in 500 versus >> more than less. Yes, >> that's right. >> I agree. >> Can I just say something? We're going to

put together some FAQs to put on the website for town meeting. If you could write that up, it helps people to understand, oh, what is this thing that we're doing and why is it >> why are we doing it? >> Why are we doing it? But that but the but that >> 2028 or 29 is good to just articulate. >> We can talk to You know, they say we're fully funded, but what's fully funded? Well, that's the definition. >> And would I rather be would I rather be two feet from the finish line or at 10%, you know, starting this process. So, >> right, the big picture here. >> It's a moving target is the answer to the question. >> But we are within the zone. >> I'd rather be 50 feet after the finish

line because you're going to lose ground. That's what I think. >> Yeah. >> Um, so then, okay. So, article 18 is budget adjustments. Currently, we have slight wage line adjustments for minor oversights. We have some harbor master budget changes, but that's all coming out of the waterways fund. And I don't think we need more funding for the fire chief um because we're going to have the lap salary. And as long as um they don't cut into what we need, which is five months of a salary, we should be fine. And then add to that, which I just found out about the radiator replenishment. And then after that, we have a final

article of unpaid bills. We have found out that we do have a substantial unpaid bill and it is for around $26,000 for snow removal bill that didn't come in until like a week ago. >> What? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. For a subcontract. Now, um, this year the Board of Public Works decided that they were going to clear snow completely off the sidewalk using third party contractors for a much longer distance out from the downtown that they've than they have done in the past. And so there were more bills involved and this is one of them. It's for snow clearing down by Farnum's I think

>> Harllo. All the way to Harlo. >> Yeah. >> It's not surprising. I think a lot of those guys ignore it for the whole summer and then they come back and try to redo their business before the end of the start of the next season. So, >> no, that's that's incumbent upon the people that you hire, you know, before when you're in municipal government, you know that you start. >> Yep. You are hammering away at that and and we do it with everyone else. So, um but this is, you know, for a discussion with DPW about use of sub, >> but it will take a nine10 vote at a at a uh fall time at a special town meeting, right? You'll probably get it because it's the last last one. Everybody wants to leave.

>> Yeah. But that still um needs to be explained. Yes. And people will be pissed about it. >> Yes. And when you do sit with the board of public works, that's one of the things we plan to talk about and that will be with the finance committee as well. >> Yeah. >> That's it. >> Can we can Sorry, just because I don't know if you know and I always like appreciate the reminder about snow removal and how that budgeting is a little bit more. >> Yeah. So >> fuzzy >> with snow budget. As long as you budget at least what you had budgeted the previous fiscal year, you are allowed to overspend that number. How you deal with that deficit can be done in one of two ways. One, before the

fiscal year ends, usually at the annual town meeting, you can use free cash to fund that deficit. If you don't do that, then it actually takes away from your levy capacity the next fiscal year because that's how you make it up. >> But you would have had to know that number before the end of the fiscal year. >> You will >> to be able to address either. >> We've never had a snow snow bill come in in the middle of August or September. Yeah. >> Never had that happen, especially a substantial one. >> Normally by May, you do know exactly what your deficit is. And we normally use a practice of using free cash to wipe it out. Otherwise, now the levy that you're planning on for FY28 is

thrown off >> because you got to fund that out of the out of the levy. >> Can we have a number? I'm sure you're putting it together of like what it was last year. >> I have I have it for 10 years. I have it for 13 years actually. >> So what what was last year and then what was this year plus the 26? So 2025 it was 169842. Before the 265 for 2026 it was $281,266. It has never exceeded uh before that. The highest um snow removal budget since 2013 was in 2014 for $128,000. And >> so >> it's up over 300. >> Over 300

>> with the extra bill. >> Yep. So is that the result? Uh I mean you can talk to the DPW about it. Is it like all things everything is so much more expensive or is it >> I think they chose to do things that they have never done before. They went >> Was there a basis behind that decision? >> It it has but they went out they did >> wholesale clearing >> along stretches of road that they never did that at. It was always the immediate >> down subcontractors at night. So you can take all of those factors plus, you know, it does cost more, but they never used subcontractors to do this before. They would do because I because I talked to several people about this. They would

clear the roads. Then they would clear the streets, the sidewalks for walkers to school. Then they would clear the downtown district. And then anything else after that would be done during the day, Monday through Friday, as they could pick away. they would use their own truck with somebody on overtime at night, which is a lot cheaper than a private contractor doing the same thing. >> So, they decided to do >> they they rely more on private contractor and they moved to a larger clearing zone. So, there's your >> price double your diesel price now. >> Yeah. So, >> okay. So, we have a meeting with the DPW in the next couple weeks. >> Yes. >> Um Okay. Okay. Anything else?

>> Is there a policy on that? because that's from a financial standpoint that's a huge overage >> again snowstorms are snowtorms but the policy of budgeting for that which falls in >> I don't believe there is the board of public works is an independent authority once they get appointed and they manage their own affairs but it's certainly something that when when the selectman and the finance committee do sit with the with the board of public works which is coming up we haven't gotten the date yet that's something that needs to be discussed cost. I agree >> because that comes out of free cash and and it does. This isn't the first time this year. This happened after annual

town meeting, too. So, these are bills after we went outside of uh town meeting appropriation. So, I think we could recommend that maybe when we meet with them to have some type of a policy policy. >> I I have it in my notes for that meeting because I was pretty surprised. I just happened to know one of the subcontractors because he was doing work for me and >> right and the policy >> he told me he plowed and I said you better have that bill in he goes well I I bill it at the end I said you better start billing that monthly don't wait till the end you >> and the policy will start with the physical right >> what is your zone you know don't go don't bump beyond the zone that's first

thing and then how are you going to deal with it is it overtime at night with your own truck or is it private contractor at night so Those things can be built into I agree with you Mike. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Okay. Motion to adjurnn. >> So move. >> We're we're convening still.