Gloucester Ordinances and Administration Standing Committee, Oct. 19, 2026

Alright. Okay, we are all set. Let's see. Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Christmas is just us attendees, not… Okay. Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Alright, so, thank you, everybody, for coming O&A. remote, meet, you know. Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): October 19, 2026. I am Councillor Nolan, we have Councilor President Tony Gross, we have our City Solicitor in attendance, and we have, Councilor Benson here as well. Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Number one, boards, committees, and commissions. New appointments. Fisheries Commission, Angela San Felitho, term to end, 2-15-2029. Angela is obviously not here or online.

Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): And it's weird, she's listed as a new appointment, but she is, because of the fact that she had a change. She was off the commission February 2nd, 14th, until now. I don't want to treat her as a new appointment. Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): She's been involved with the city for a long time. If there's any questions, Tony… No, she's been on the Fisheries Commission since it was reconstituted. So, I have no problem putting her through. This is exactly like a reappointment. Yeah, as far as I'm concerned. With that being said, do we have a motion. Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Okay, I'm gonna read the motion. Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Move to recommend that the City Council appoint Angela San Felippo to the Fisheries Commission, term to end

Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): February 15th, 2029, and I so moved. Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Second. Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): All in favor? Aye. Aye. So that's 2 in favor, 1 absent. Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Next up, we have CC number 2026017 Benson, amend GCO Chapter 14, Offenses Miscellaneous Provisions, by adding a new article. Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): 4. Shopping Cart Regulations, section 1446, definitions, section 14-47, identification of Shopping Carts. Section 14-48, Shopping Carts to be confined to Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): premises, section 14-49, Enforcement, and this has been continued from September 14th, 2026. Councilor Benson, you have the floor? Yeah, as we… as we spoke to at the September meeting about the continuation was.

Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): I was going to reach out to establishments that have these carts, and we have done so, and there was very little pushback or even really response from them. It was more that they were going to send it to their corporate offices. Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): One of the managers said that this is something they've seen at stores that they've worked outside of Gloucester. As we have talked about, there are multiple municipalities on the North Shore and beyond that have these, and… Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): in that time frame, constituents have been reaching out with pictures of, shopping carts at Green Street Park, Burnham's Field, I've seen them outside of Ward 2, in Ward 1, in Ward 3. So these, these have just been… they're everywhere, and what we did is we've made some changes to it is that it's really not going to be punitive if they are stolen off-site.

Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): We're not going to penalize the establishments that own these carts, but more so what we're going to do is this ordinance will say you have to put a locking system on, you'll have 6 months after this ordinance passes, so technically they really will have 7 months, because once the ordinance is passed by… if it is passed by the full council, it will be 30 days from that date, so they'll basically have 7 months. Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): And that's kind of one thing that I wanted to give as… one of the things was giving them significant time for, putting these forward, because I know they probably have them Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): in their warehouses all over because, again, we know that they use them, in many other, municipalities because these ordinances are on the books. So it would give them 6 months after

Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): after it's on the books, to put these locking systems on, and the enforcement would be that they would have 6 months to do that, and if they don't, then that would be the violation. It would not be a violation if the carts are just found Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): outside, in, like, Green Street Park, or off… I mean, when I say outside, off the premises. Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): That, I think, was something that I know is some concern that some members of the O&A had, and that's why I've made those changes. So… Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Excellent. I'll start with, Councillor Gross. Do you have any questions or comments? So…

Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): I'm a little concerned about the… Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): I mean, it may be cheaper for them to have, on the, the cart. Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): You're gonna just pay a fine rather than to retrofit everything. Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Whether or not I agree with having something… having your property stolen, then be fined for it is a whole other philosophical issue, but yeah. Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Well, that's why we changed the ordinance to not specifically say if it was stolen off the property, that then they would be charged, so it's that they just would have to put these locking systems on. Again, I don't think there would really… there's gonna be much…

Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): there hasn't been any pushback from any of the folks that I've spoken to, and this really is going to be a corporate decision. You're talking about multi-million dollar businesses, like Marshalls, Home Goods, Market Basket, Stop and Shop, these are… these are… Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): very well… Shaw's… these are very wealthy businesses. What did they have to say? They really didn't say it. She said, send us the ordinance, and she was going to send it up to corporate. They offered no opinion on it. They hadn't offered no opinion on it. Because I know they're… of all of our stores, they're probably the one that's struggling most. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): So they, they didn't offer any opinion. I mean, it… my guess is that they… they, again, they do this in other communities, so stop and shops have these, locks already on them, so my guess is… Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Again, no one offered real opinions on it, but my understanding is that since these are every… a lot of other places, I think there's up to… Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): 20 stores from the last time that I checked, 20 cities and towns that I've last checked that have these ordinances. So it's not like… they'll probably just bring Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Send on down… send on shopping carts out. The 351, there's only 20? I think from what I looked, I mean, there's probably more, but that's what I looked, and I'm talking about in and around our area, from… I'm talking about eastern Massachusetts. Yeah. From here to, like, Somerville. Oh, that 351.

Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): In a smaller towns, probably don't even have a store. Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Huh? Yeah. Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Go ahead. Oh, go ahead. Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): No, Councilmanson… Yeah. Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): At this point, I still don't agree with it, just so you know. Okay. I'd like to see emails Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): how long they've had to dwell on it before they get back to us. Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): I'm just curious, like, what's the pushback here when these are multi-million dollar corporations, and they do it in so many other communities? That's what I'm just…

Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): The pushback would be the fact, as a business owner, is that someone's telling me something that is… someone's stealing my stuff, and using it, and they're not supposed to. Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): And I understand that there's issues with it. We had this with Railroad Avenue Shots, and they worked on it. But I would like to know, you know, on a fear end of voting on something. Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): That there's proof that they know this is coming down the pipe, and it's been a certain amount of time… Yeah. …for them to respond to it. Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): And if they haven't taken it seriously with you showing us proof of the emails going out to people.

Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Then shame on them. Okay. But there should also be a penalty for people that have these cards. Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): walking around town. Yeah. If they're labeled, and so on and so forth, that'd be something I wouldn't mind seeing added to this, but I understand what's going on. It's not as big as a problem as it was 5 years ago, but it's still a problem. Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): And it's still a nuisance to have, you know, carts on sidewalks, banging down the street, smashing people's cars, and doing damage. I'd just like to see a little bit more information of who was notified and how. Because Ace Hardware has carts, too. You didn't mention Ace Hardware.

Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Ace Hardware has been notified, and there was communications with, Sam Park and his, team, several communications, and I can share those. I mean, we can continue this. Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): beyond today, and share those emails with your… with, the subcommittee here. And there were questions about, like, does this include, like. Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): like, the baskets that are in the grocery… no, that doesn't include them. This is just going to be carts. But it's still so-and-so. Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): steals a basket, they stole the basket. Yeah. Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Yeah. So, it's just tough for me. As far as the nuisance, I understand it 100%.

Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): But I just really feel strongly, you know, with the people… I mean, every time there's a cost to something, you actually keep saying multi-million dollar companies. If they get to spend 300 grand to do something, that's gonna offset cost. We're already looking at high cost of groceries right now. Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): And, you know, this is… it's a corporation. They're gonna… they're gonna put that on the purchaser. Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Sure. Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): But they're not put… are they putting it on purchasers in communities that already have them? Because community… since we're talking about several… Somerville has them. They possibly. Boston has them. Possibly. Chelsea has them, so… I don't know. So, I… I just… I'm just not sure that that is…

Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): a fair argument, because I think grocery costs are… are because of inflation and many other costs. I don't think a grocery store is gonna put more cost on consumers because they have to do this. I think they're already… they already have these carts. I can't definitively say that, but I would say… They have carts. Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): It doesn't mean they have cars for Gloucester. Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): And there was an expense spent to do it. So you're talking about GPS, you're talking about electronics, you're talking about battery maintenance to lock the wheel up. There's a lot of things part of it. Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): And I think that we really need to think about this, and I'd like to see a little bit more info on who's been informed, how they got the information, whether it's via email, word of mouth, or a handshake, or if there's proof out there that they actually know what's going on before we move forward.

Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Yeah, there's been phone calls and then emails, and again, I'm more than, that's fine. Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): to share policy. Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): That'd be excellent. Yeah, I can share them with you right away. Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): How do you feel? I, I, I agree that, Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): You know, that penalizing someone for their stolen property is a little… Certainly doesn't… Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): It does not help our, recruitment. Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Of grocery stores, which is something that we, Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): You know, I do shop at… stop and shop quite a bit, and they…

Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Their… their foot traffic is so much less. Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): than the other stores, that I think that Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): they're looking at, is Gloucester worth it? I'm sure the corporate's thinking that. And, you know, whether it's… Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): You know, trying to find a cost for these. Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): And, and, I mean, I'm finding anywhere. Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): It's not really giving me a good… not getting a good, Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): a good thing coming up, but I imagine it's, you know, $50 a car at minimum.

Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): You know, to… to have the electronic, break. Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): That probably also has, Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): I don't know what its lifespan would be, but I just… I do, you know, as Councillor Nolan said, I do… I am concerned about finding somebody for having their property stolen. Now, if we want to look at this Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): as the city has an ordinance that says that you have to have this if you have shopping carts, then I think, Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): That… that is something that's… that's worth… maybe even more worthwhile, is that you would be fined if you don't have

Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): this electronic system, rather than if your cart got stolen. Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): And that's… that's the changes that I've put forward that are showing here, is it's in the… the enforcement is saying that they need to be confined to the premises. Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): But that the enforcement is that they need to have the locking system on, so they need to put the locking system on. It's not that if the card is, say, stolen… there was discussion, and that's why I made those changes. Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): with that, and I think that is something we should worthwhile look at, because again, this is something that other communities do. I don't think that…

Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): People are gonna have some time, you know, breakdown of, you know, a cart, and… Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): You know, Again, I'm… I'm trying to address the concerns of… of constituents that have Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): brought these cars… and I've seen them, and I know you've probably seen them, you've seen them. This is… this is an issue, and… and this is not something that we're reinventing the wheel. Like, the ordinance that I put forward with help from the solicitor's office Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): is… is basically from other communities. So, in addition, we did make, again, make those edits to say that it's… let's put those lock systems on. And I think that's the better approach, versus let's fine them if they're off the premises, versus let's just have them have the locking system. And I… but I do think 6… giving them six months after passage.

Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): It's quite a long time to figure out a way to put these locks on these carts. Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Yeah, because I think they may be able to retrofit them. Yes. Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): And that's yes. Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Fortunately, I'm not seeing… Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): 14. 1448. Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Oh, yeah, now I see it. I got it right here. Okay. No, I see it. I see it. But, Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): But who's to say that, you know, the person didn't disable it? Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): You know, smash it with a hammer.

Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): disable the locking device. Yeah. I did reach out. Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): to other community… I've reached out to some… specifically Somerville, and asked Somerville, like, on a phone call, saying, like, what… what have… has… because it's been in place, I think, for 10 years in Somerville, when I looked at that ordinance. Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): they have not seen that, and I've been to the Market Basket in Somerville many times, as you know. And they don't seem to have any issue, like… Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Market Basket is a beast unto themselves in the grocery store chain world. Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Your concerns more for, like, the struggling store?

Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): And the smaller shops, the Rocky, the Ace Hardwares, the, you know, and we're trying to get… Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): you know, we're not trying to discourage, so it's… Yeah, and you know. Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): I'm not… my objective here is not to discourage any business. Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): 12 carts. Yeah. Now they gotta invest in a transmitter, and, you know, so it's not that those are the carts. Market Basket's probably the most desirable, because they're the biggest, but, Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Yeah, those are the… I mean, the carts that we're seeing mostly is… is… is… is market basket carts, home goods, and… and, Marshall's carts. Would there be…

Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): A size to the carts. Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Where CVS, Petco, and grocery stores have the smaller carts. Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Could look at that, I mean, he could look at that. Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): I mean, who's gonna want to take a small shopping cart? I don't think so. You know, but I'm sure we do see CVS carts, you know, but it's probably more… Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): You know, you see him in the marsh over… over there in East Gloucester, because kids have been… Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Don't go into it. But they have… Yeah, now, I mean… Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): they have very few carts, so how… do we want to have… if you have 50 carts or more… Yeah.

Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): No, there's a few carts, there's a few stores that have the, like, I think it's actually… maybe it is Marshalls, if I'm correct, because I was having conversation. Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): with someone of that mark, like, they already have something where, like, the carts can't leave a certain, like, distance from the premise, and those are the smaller carts. Yeah, so they, yeah. So they already have something there. Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): And actually, I'm surprised that MarketBasket doesn't already have that in place. They do in a lot of markets, yeah. That's why I'm surprised they just don't… Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): We do it in so many other places, yeah. I mean, there's… I think there's things that we can do to clean… to even clean this up more.

Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Would you be willing to clean it up a little bit and bring it back in two weeks? Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): I have no pro… I mean, I have no… I have no problem doing that, and I think he needs to know what we look for. Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): And that's what I. Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Yeah, yeah, that's really what I want to see. I mean, we can talk, even I can talk, and if you want to offer some amendments, we can talk offline. Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): I would say that we're. Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): brought up is, you know, like, if you have 50 carts or less, you're exempt.

Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): I think that's only… I mean, I think that's fair. I think what we're trying to… and I think you're unders… I think you, Tony, are trying… you're understanding where I'm trying to… what I'm trying to do here. Oh, absolutely. Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Absolutely. Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Well, I think this would save Rockies, Ice, you know, Ace Hardware. They're a smaller business. Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): And they have those, like… and they also now have… the, Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): the hand baskets now have a longer handle than wheels. Yeah. Up there. Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Those would not be include… I don't… I don't see those. They're not included in the ways right now.

Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): People have taken to go pick up trash and go jump collect and dump metal off it. Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Pawn drug. Yep. Right. Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): You know, that are gonna be found other places. In fact, I'm sure if you speak to Kevin Hunt down Pond Road, he may tell you people to drop off shopping carts that are also metal, full of metal, that they picked out in scraps in Cleveland as weight. Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): But, I just… If we could clean it up a little bit more, he did a good job. Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): on this. You've done a ton of work with it, and obviously.

Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Sorry for my original push. Yeah. Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): We just definitely… we're not here to hurt people. No, no. It feels bad. Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): You know, trying to make it harder for a. Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Trust me, I'm not either, you know, I mean, there may be the people in the community that think I'm a communist, but, I mean… Or the Mondani of Gloucester. I mean, I'm not as talented as he is, but jokes aside… I would say you're much more. Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Well, I appreciate that. But yeah, no, I mean, I'm more than willing to clean, and we can talk,

Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): If the council's present, we can talk about this even after this meeting. A cart minimum of 50? Yeah. Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): whatever you, you know, I mean, 50 just… I popped up, I mean, if that's too many, I mean, whatever you… Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): I think, like, with Petco, it is only, like, I mean, their… their carts are… they don't have… they barely have any plastic. Yeah, and I think our… the goal here is to… is to… is to really get those carts that we're seeing, and those of the carts that we're seeing. Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): are not the size of Petco. They're not even the size of, like, what we're seeing at Rocco's. So maybe we can, you know, add…

Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): to exempt it. Yeah. Sure. I'd also like to see a fine for someone possessing the car. Okay. Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Yes, yes, rather than the fine pollutant of the person who was in there. Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): We can add, we can definitely add that, so… because I think the fines here… That would have to go to the police department, right? For theft. Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Right, there already is, right? There already is a criminal. There's already a statute for stealing, for example. Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): So you just reflect that statute? Yes. Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): It's stolen. If you're caught with a car, you could be charged for larceny. It could be referred to the police for a larceny.

Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Yeah. And I think the way it's… the way the edits have been written is that it's… the fines are to get them to put the lock… those that we want have the locking system on. Right, yeah, yeah. Not versus when I originally said it was going to be if they're off the premises. I support the locking system. Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Yeah. Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): I do support it. I know, I know. Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Yep. Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): And my… so my question… yeah, so my question is, and as Tony said, is like, what… what are you looking for so we can move this forward, and we can actually have a… a good produce, an ordinance that's… it's 90% there, so we can have 100%, and it can go through the committee, and then the rest of the council can decide.

Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Because I'd rather have a positive documentation here, than… than not, because I like to… so then we have a good ordinance, and then we can get this on the books. Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Let's say the account… Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): of carts in your store. Okay. …would be important. Okay. I'm not gonna put a number on it. Alright. If you put a size of a cart, then you gotta figure out what the sizes are. Yeah. And then you could say it's a 185 quart size cart, but then you have to think about the stored in the bottom of the cart. Yeah. So I think if we restrict it to the amount of carts, and how little that person's influx is.

Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): in, that. Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Do you think amount of carts is better than saying what size it is? Because we can't quant… we may not be able to fully quantify what size. Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): we just… we just mentally shopped all the shops up there, and what the size of the carts are, and what they usually have for the amount of carts. Okay. You know, that would be something I'd be looking for. Torny, anything else you'd like to add? Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): I think that in Section 1448, I think that… Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): there may be, I guess, would you refer to 1448, that

Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): That the… on the 1449, the enforcement, rather than the… Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): thinking about the theft of the card. Okay. It's whether or not they are in compliance with this ordinance, as of the date. Okay. Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): You know, is that something that can be… Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): What are you saying? So, rather than have an offense by per cart that's gone, just have the offense that if you don't have the system in place… I see what you're saying. Yeah. Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Yeah. Yes, and that would probably take re-rating. Speaker 4 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): 14-49B. I think if you worked on that, then you could change.

Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Yeah, I took away the case. Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Because that's the way to get at that. Yeah. Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Yeah. But a total fine for not being in compliance would be easier. Right. Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Yep. And then you can do Find My Day, or whatever, you know? Right. Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): And I wouldn't. Speaker 4 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): necessarily require enforcement. The way it would be… you know, sometimes you do ordinances to… so that you can go out and enforce, and sometimes you can do it so that you can Speaker 4 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): sort of enforce when the problem arises. So you're going to find the carts, and then you're gonna say, oh, is this… you don't have the restrictive device on that, and that's how you would find it, as opposed to tasking the police or the building inspection to go…

Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): The real object… the real objective for me on this ordinance is to get them to do it, to get the brakes on, and not even, like, get… because, like, and especially giving them significant time, I think most of the places that we think should have this locking system will do it. Like, I think a market basket will do. Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Let's get the biggest, the most amount of cards that are around. Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): That's what I see mostly market, but I do see some home goods, ones, ever so often, and I've seen those actually Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): lately, but they're about the same size as the Market Basket ones, so… Marshalls. And Marshalls, I have not… I've not seen too many… again, they have the smaller ones, and I know from… that they have the ability to, like… I think they lock pretty much right on the…

Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): right on the outside of that Marshalls, from, I think… I was talking to… I think Rocco was telling me. He said that that's what they do, so… Yep, so you really can't walk to your car with them. That's what I remember him telling me, so… that's… Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): So yeah, so they, they just… that's their policy, is we have… we don't let the carts don't leave the store. They can make it to the curb. Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Council Benson and Susanna, do you think there's something we can do in two weeks or a month? Like, 2 weeks. Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): I've got two weeks. I can speak to… to… to the solicitor and… and Rocco to the assistance, and just see what they… if they have some suggestions of how to amend the language, and go from there.

Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Alright, perfect. Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): So this will be continued for 2 weeks. Okay. Thank you, Councilor Benton. You're welcome. Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Thank you. Thank you. I'm gonna stay to listen about the marijuana, so… Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): I mean, much to listen about. She's gonna give a little bit of a talk, and we're gonna vote. Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Okay, well, I'm gonna say… I'm gonna say the list, if that's okay. I'm not gonna ask any questions. No, you gotta leave. I'm just gonna listen, I'm just gonna listen. It's a public meeting. And then I'll ask you after the meeting, because I had a question about what… how this will affect that ballot question, but I can ask you that. Oh, that's true, it's true.

Speaker 4 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Right. Go ahead. Do you want me to go ahead? Yeah, I was gonna say. Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Number 3, Memorandum from General Counsel proposing an amendment to Chapter 28, Marijuana Retail Establishments. Speaker 4 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Councillor Egan. Okay, thank you. So this ordinance, as proposed, is actually a mandate from the state. It's the Model Cannabis Commission, ordinance, which is… Speaker 4 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): So the law requires that cities and towns adopt ordinances or policies that allow for transparency of the permitting process and licensing process on the local level for marijuana retail establishments, and also the law, when it was enacted, looks to rectify the impact for, communities that were negatively impacted by the, marijuana when

Speaker 4 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Marijuana was criminalized. Speaker 4 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): And so this also Speaker 4 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): has a social equity program aspect to it. So the beginning of it is to say, we have to tell what our permitting process is, and our approval process, and how we go about negotiating host community agreements. And I think… so that's what that does, that's a requirement of the state law. Speaker 4 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): And just in terms of the impact of this ordinance, that's actually something that will be good for the city, because as it stands now, we have an ordinance, and we have a zoning ordinance that talks about a special permit, and also the number of retail… or marijuana retail licenses that are available, but we have nothing that really shows

Speaker 4 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Here's the process. Speaker 4 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): And it's a little hidden, and that's why this law and requirement to have this ordinance in effect has been passed. Then the next section talks about the host community agreement negotiations. Speaker 4 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): you recall, I think this was a number of years ago for Gloucester, that Gloucester enters into negotiations with each applicant to get a license to, go into the medical… or the marijuana retail business. And the host community agreement process is typically a negotiation where Speaker 4 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): the law allowed. It's all in flux, it's sort of been going through this interpretive process, but,

Speaker 4 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): the community would negotiate with the licensee, the person who was applying for a license to, set out the terms and conditions of how they would be operating in the community. So this talks about if it's a socially impacted or social equity applicant. Speaker 4 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): the different things that you have to do with that. You can waive the fees, you, Speaker 4 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): you can… you give them, sort of, a leg up for the treatment. It's a little bit, but it's more to balancing. We're trying to balance… I think that's the law is designed to… to, you know. Speaker 4 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): to balance the, the communities that were impacted negatively when marijuana was criminalized, to bring them to the same level, as other sort of applicants that didn't have that negative impact.

Speaker 4 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): It says what we can and we can't do. You know, some of it is a shall. We shall, engage in the negotiations with them. We shall allow them to have a lawyer at present. We shall negotiate in good faith. These are kind of things that we do already, but the Cannabis Commission has, required, or the regulations require that we adopt it. Some also may. We may waive some of the fees. Speaker 4 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): And requirements for a social equity Speaker 4 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Applicant, but we're not required to. Speaker 4 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): And then the last provision is the Municipal Equity Plan, and that is a plan that encourages the social equity applicants.

Speaker 4 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): to apply for a license in Gloucester, and that has to be published on the website, and we have to provide notice then to the Cannabis Control Commission once this is passed, because Speaker 4 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): It's a requirement that is passed. We're a little behind, and the reason for that is because there was a lot of flux. Speaker 4 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): fluctuation within the Cannabis Control Commission for a while, and now that they're sort of back up and fully running, with a pretty solid and established commission, then Speaker 4 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): This is going forward. Speaker 4 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): So, it's important that the city adopt this to be in compliance with the law.

Speaker 4 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): And, but I'm happy to answer any questions you have. Excellent, thank you. Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Suzanne. Yep. Councillor Gross, do you have any questions? Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Yes, I don't see any definitions for a verified social equity business. Speaker 4 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Okay, so that's… we could put that in there, it's in the state law, so… Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): I didn't find it in 94G, Section 4, 935CMR500.181. I didn't find it in either of those. Speaker 4 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Okay, so it is in the regulations, and it's also in the, Speaker 4 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): So it's also, if you go into the… I mean, this is not legally, but if you go onto the Cannabis Control Commission website, it defines all the different, social equity groups and, minority groups, and what is and isn't, and who is… who is eligible for that status.

Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): It does talk about several groups. Speaker 4 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): It's disadvantaged businesses, it's minority businesses, women, veterans, and then certain groups that are certified by the state as disadvantaged business enterprises. Yeah, pre-verified entity. Yep, so once they get that. Speaker 4 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): that verification or status from the states, and they have… they'll provide that to the city when they come in to apply, for the… to start negotiations, which they have to do before they apply for a license. Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): And then the equity program. Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): equity plan, that the city shall have publicized at City Hall? Did we have that?

Speaker 4 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): We don't have that plan yet, but that will be, that will come out of this, the equity standards, and from this ordinance that will be, set out. And the thing is, that's important to know about this, is that the Cannabis Control Commission is very prescriptive. Speaker 4 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): So this is their model ordinance. There's going to be a… there's a model equity plan that we can adopt to… this isn't the same exact language, it's more tailored to Gloucester, but that equity plan will follow Speaker 4 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): what the Cannabis Commission has, sort of, is mandating, and also what every other community in the comment box is.

Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): The equity plan is only specific to the cannabis. Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): stuff that we have to… that we have to post. Absolutely. Speaker 5 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): That's what this is all about. Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): to do with any other… anything else. And we have to have that… have to find more Pulletin boards. Speaker 5 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Okay, that was it. Speaker 3 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Perfect. Speaker 5 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Thank you. Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): So I would like to accept this as read, and I'll… Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): I already read. No, I didn't, no. Community recommendations, move to recommend the City Council amend the Gloucester Code of Ordinances, Chapter 28, Marijuana Retail Establishment as follows. I'd like to… to add this as…

Speaker 5 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): Presented. Presented it. Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): And I so move. Second. Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): All in favor? Aye. Aye. So the ayes have it, 2 in favor, 1 absent. Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): And at this point, I'd like to ask for a motion to adjourn. So moved. All in favor? Aye. Aye. That's two and one absent. Everybody have a great evening. Thank you. remember that. Speaker 1 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): What's gonna say, what's the most about? Speaker 2 (Harbormaster - Conference Room): We still don't just have to close, right?