Gloucester Planning Board, Oct. 15, 2026

Jane Remsen Hi, everybody. I'm calling the Planning Board Subcommittee Remote Meeting to order of October 15, 2026. I'm Jane Remsen, the chair of the subcommittee. We also have Sean Hendry, who is on the subcommittee, which is only three people, so we have a quorum of two. We have Greg Cadematori, our city planner, and we have Alex Koppelman, the director of… the… community development director. Alex, the first order of business is review of the Housing Compass implementation strategies and how we, the Subcommittee, can help you, alex, or.

Alex Koppelman help.

Jane Remsen the city of Gloucester by getting started on some of the strategies.

Alex Koppelman Terrific! Well, we have an adopted housing plan, and we're excited to get started with implementation. As I've stated before, I think the Housing Subcommittee is the right group to work on the zoning-related recommendations. We have some finance-related recommendations that the Affordable Housing Trust is getting underway with now, such as a lending product for accessory dwelling units for income-eligible households, and then we've got a host of other recommendations that Community Development Department's going to be leading. It would be great to review the zoning-related recommendations with you today, and then talk a little bit about, where we see the priority moving forward. So I thought I'd just bring up the plan.

Alex Koppelman So, if we go to… Recommendations, just as a reminder, these are organized under the principles of protect, preserve, and produce. And most of the zoning recommendations are on the produce side. So I'm going to flip forward to that section.

Alex Koppelman Alright. So, these are the produce recommendations, and then just as another reminder, they correspond to these four goals. The first is to serve an aging community. The second is to create diverse housing options. The third is to make the housing that we bring in here more affordable for Gloucester households. And then the fourth is to build capacity to do these things. The star on the left indicates what we identified as priority recommendations. And under produce, the priority recommendation is to create a smart growth zoning overlay for the Railroad Ave area. And then we've got several other zoning related recommendations underneath this. I'll just highlight the first one, which is to consider an infill housing overlay to bring about smaller attainable housing options.

Alex Koppelman So I thought we would focus on those two today as I think there are some great next steps we could take in both of those areas. So when it comes to Railroad Ave, we have some encouraging news. The city, just was awarded a grant through the Housing Choice Program, for $124,300 to, support a smart growth zoning initiative for the Railroad Ave area. So, that's gonna provide us with a consultant that will choose Who can help us draft the zoning, engage the community, and also look at site conditions at a planning level, thinking about project impacts on traffic, infrastructure, water, wastewater, to make sure that everything there is looking good, and anything that needs to be done to address any potential impacts can be done.

Alex Koppelman So, it's great to be able to adopt the plan and then receive this grant so we can move forward with, I think, one of the highest priority recommendations, and I think the… Planning Board Housing Subcommittee will be a great partner as we move through that process.

Jane Remsen That is great news, Alex. I'm really happy to hear that.

Alex Koppelman Yeah. Yeah, so…

Jane Remsen Yeah.

Alex Koppelman It's, it's, really good timing. I do want to just give you a little bit of sense of the timeline. We have to… bring the grant forward to City Council for them to accept it, so that's been submitted to them. It's been referred to the Budget and Finance Subcommittee, so they will discuss it next Thursday, and then make a recommendation on acceptance to the full Council. On October 26th, and then the full City Council will vote on. The acceptance of the grant. I'm gonna assume.

Jane Remsen You don't foresee any speed bumps with that, right?

Alex Koppelman I think the City Council was supportive of this recommendation, and in their adoption of the plan just a few weeks ago, is encouraging, so… Umm. But yeah, it just takes a little bit of time, that's the city's process for accepting a grant. So we'll work through that, and then we will go through a process of selecting a consultant and possibly sub-consultants to work on the site analysis, as I mentioned. So, they'll all take a little bit of time. We did outline that in a timeline in the grant application. This could change a little bit as we get going here, but we actually assumed that we would be working through the end of the year to get through acceptance and to procure consultant support.

Alex Koppelman So, we might even be a little bit ahead of that schedule, but we built in a little bit of time to do that, and then, starting in the new year, we would look at existing conditions. So that would involve analyzing the existing zoning and land use, the parcels in the area, who owns what, identifying those stakeholders, as well as the community stakeholders in downtown. Looking at the environmental constraints, transit, parking, infrastructure, all of those things we would look at and that would help us determine what the appropriate boundaries of the zoning would be. We envision at this stage zoning process that looks at the Railroad Ave corridor as a whole, leaning on the reimagining railroad vision.

Alex Koppelman And… Facilitating more of a pedestrian-friendly environment, so. We'd work through existing conditions, the first couple months of 2027. And then we would begin engagement, and we've outlined different groups that we think will be important to engage in this. It is an environmental justice neighborhood downtown in that area, so we really want to make sure we are reaching out to lower-income residents, renters. all of the businesses in that area and property owners, seniors. We know a lot of seniors and folks in the downtown area utilized that Shaw's grocery store, so it'll be really important to, keep them involved. We will, use, language access specs

Alex Koppelman practices with translation and interpretation. So there will be a big engagement component as we shape the zoning. And then, moving into the spring is when we would start drafting the actual zoning. And, then that would have to be reviewed by the state to make sure it meets state standards for a Chapter 40R Smart Growth District. So, if all of that goes according to schedule, we may be able to complete the project by next August. And that is a tentative timeline.

Jane Remsen The zoning, not the building, just to clarify.

Alex Koppelman Oh, yes, just the Zoom.

Jane Remsen Everyone at home.

Alex Koppelman We're not in the business of building, we just make it possible to build.

Jane Remsen Right.

Alex Koppelman And. But, you know, City Council will be, heavily involved in this. There'll be a grant, a special permit, or… well, there'll be a granting authority. In this case, they've gotta, pass the zoning, and it's… and it's our role. Staff and planning board to present recommendations for that, so…

Shawn Henry Parallel with this, would we be looking at the Washington Street project also? Because my understanding is they want to… Do. The Washington Street Project is 40R also. Or would… Would that be two separate?

Alex Koppelman So that's another recommendation. There's some variables at play right now that affect timing, but that may be something that we do in parallel, or maybe even before this. We've been in touch with the state about Our intention to do that, and we're sort of ironing out the details right now.

Jane Remsen Just taking notes, so sorry if I'm quiet. Okay. And what what is your definition of the railroad app corridor?

Alex Koppelman Yeah, I don't know, maybe… Greg?

Jane Remsen Lying here, it's killing me.

Alex Koppelman Our maps…

Jane Remsen I'm not waving, trying to get your attention.

Alex Koppelman I think it'll be.

So.

Alex Koppelman look at it.

So the… the… the 2020… 2014 plan had a… a rough boundary, that was basically Washington Railroad and Maplewood Ave, kind of that, and kind of ex… It was a loose area, it was called a study area, so that's something that would be refined in probably the early part of.

Jane Remsen consider.

duration. But it basically flanked Railroad Ave, flanked Maplewood Ave, and then was bounded by Washington Street on the other end. So, general area, but… and that covered, you know, part of that… the lead-in to that was, a market study, you know, both for for commercial and retail, as well as housing. You know, so it was… it was pretty broad, and then… and then it started to kind of get a little bit more refined. But that… that's basically what we… I think you would start and revisit with.

Alex Koppelman Yeah, that would be the starting point of the study. What actually becomes the official zoning boundaries would be determined through that process.

Jane Remsen Right. Okay. Here it is again. Hold on. So… What if we did start working on Washington Street sooner? Do we have support for that? The Washington Street project.

Alex Koppelman Well, it's another opportunity site recommended in the plan. There's been a lot of engagement over time with the abutters and surrounding neighborhood. We have some concepts of what they're planning to do there, which they've actually adjusted based on engagement, so… I think things are set up there, there's just some technical things we need to get through with the state, as we pursue smart.

Jane Remsen Yeah, I realize that. I know, but will we need a grant for…

I don't think we will.

Jane Remsen you.

I don't think we will. You know, if there… there may be some ways to partner on any additional analysis that's needed. You know, these can obviously be… very discreet, or more of a, you know, a multi-lot district. So the smaller… the smaller the area, it's a little bit, You know, you're also kind of responding to what's required for submission. So it's a much narrower scope for kind of a single site, or just a couple… a small grouping of sites. So it's really… we're kind of at the eligibility stage of that, and once we get the green light for that, then we'll be able to kind of dive into it a little bit more detail.

Jane Remsen Okay. Shawn, any questions? Any more questions before Alex moves on?

Shawn Henry Nope, all good.

Jane Remsen Okay.

Alex Koppelman Okay, so… The Housing Compass plan was looking at, Gloucester in terms of what's appropriate downtown, but then also thinking about the role that the surrounding neighborhoods throughout the city have to play in addressing our housing needs and creating opportunities for folks. And we… Thought about that in terms of, okay. a slightly larger scale development that's gonna bring about, capital A affordable housing. It's more appropriate downtown, because that's where the infrastructure is, water, sewer, transit, less. development constraints. But then thinking about trying to encourage attainable housing in the neighborhood, so maybe not deed-restricted, but smaller housing types, like accessory dwelling units, three families, cluster cottages.

Alex Koppelman All of those types of homes that are gonna be smaller and easier to attain. And… I think another area for the planning board to focus on is looking at, where we would want to do, that kind of zoning. And this would also work as an overlay zone. you know, just thinking about making this a clean, intentional process, identifying places where we want to see that sort of housing where it's appropriate. And then, writing zoning that allows that to happen, rather than trying to address all of the underlying issues with zoning. So… We could do this as a Chapter 40R, I'm sorry, a Chapter 40Y starter home, zoning. Potentially, which would also provide financial incentives.

Alex Koppelman So that's something to explore a little bit further. You know, and I think this also relates to what the other item on your agenda around just cluster development.

Jane Remsen Hmm. Yeah.

Alex Koppelman So, you know, I think the advantage here is that you could take additional benefits from the state as you're addressing housing needs. So it's something to think about. I think a little bit more research is needed here to understand more about the requirements, density, and that sort of thing for a 40Y, and if the incentives are worth it. So I think that will be the first step there, is looking at some, hopefully recent examples of 40Y starter home zoning in other communities. But also, there's some work to do in terms of thinking about where it's best to have this. So I think the Housing Compass Plan gives us a foundation to start thinking about that, as it maps all the different development constraints.

Alex Koppelman And it also suggests some neighborhoods where there's, some more opportunity, but I think the two biggest things here is just to fully understand 4DY and where, it's been adopted, because it's a newer program. 4DR has been around a while. 4DY is relatively new. So we need to look at some examples. There's one identified in the plan from Orleans on the Cape, that we could look to. And then, and then identify some areas where it would make sense to do that. So there's a bit more of a process needed for this part of it. For this one.

Jane Remsen city.

Alex Koppelman Do.

Jane Remsen Do you think you could come to a future Subcommittee Meeting where more of us are there and give us a A primer on 40Y. Hi, Steve. Just wait, hang on for the public. Steve Yost, a member of the Planning Board, has joined us on the subcommittee.

Alex Koppelman Hi, Steve. Yeah, I think once we get a little bit more of that research underway, and we have some things to bring to you, we can go over some examples of it, and we can do a little bit of mapping and think about where would be opportunity for this sort of zoning.

So I think one of the things that's important to note is that… so that was enacted in 2022. But, HLC actually didn't have their framework and their code of Massachusetts regulations that govern eligibility and all the requirements until March of this year. So that Orleans example might be the pioneer. There might be a couple other communities that are starting to think about it now.

Alex Koppelman you.

That it's that it actually has a framework for acceptance because it's very similar to to 40R. There are financial incentives to it. But they basically have just come out with that CMR, which I can share, to the subcommittee in the… in the case studies folder, and I'll… and I'll refresh that link for folks. Okay. You know, with the requirements in terms of density, housing size, you know, there's also requirements for number of bedrooms, so that all only was fleshed out in this past spring.

Jane Remsen Wow, interesting, okay. Okay, so what… what are concrete, next steps and timing for… Working on something like this.

Alex Koppelman For the 40Y?

Jane Remsen Yeah. So, like, I guess the next step is for… You guys to go back and do some research on. any existing 40 white districts in Massachusetts, and how they're working out, and then… Present something to us? Is that…

Alex Koppelman Yeah, I think we also need to talk to the folks at the state that oversee that program to learn a little bit more about the requirements. And then… we need to think about some locations. I think the… The work that the subcommittee's done on, cluster zoning may be good to build on there.

Jane Remsen Yeah, but I don't think we can figure out locations until we know a little bit more about what you have to do. Right.

Alex Koppelman Right.

Jane Remsen Especially infrastructure, because some of the cluster stuff we're looking at is in places where there is no sewer. So I don't know how that… Right, that'll… that'll…

Alex Koppelman That'll be a big part of it, too, yes. So I think I could join you at another meeting before the end of the year with some of that research, and we can go over it together. And in the meantime, we can get the Smart Growth Zoning project administration taken care of, so that we can start heading forward with that in the new year.

Jane Remsen Say that again?

Alex Koppelman In the meantime, we can also get the kind of project administration, grant acceptance, selecting a vendor, all that stuff taken care of for the 40R.

Jane Remsen 40R.

Alex Koppelman Smart growth zoning, yeah.

I think the cadence would be, we should hear about eligibility for 272 Washington soon, provided that that is… A big thumbs up, then that would probably advance first. Again, the… just the contracting and getting things underway. Grant acceptance, contracting with the state, and then our own hiring of the consultant will take a few months. And that will be for the larger 40R district discussion. 40Y, I can certainly start assembling, resources. There are the state has done a couple of webinars on it. There's a couple communities that have done some presentations on what they're thinking about and considering. So I can kind of make a little library of… of resources to take a look at. And then we could… we could… we could probably speak about it a little bit more about, you know, the merits of it,

You know, probably in between those two… those two potential efforts.

Jane Remsen Two potential efforts.

272, and then the larger 40R. So, like… Mid… mid-fall.

Jane Remsen Okay. Like, we're flipping around. So, Steve, we were talking about 40Y. Did I already say that? I was just thinking it out loud. Not sure. And Alex… oh, we can't hear you.

Alex Koppelman Okay.

Jane Remsen Okay. And Alex is bringing us up to speed on… The fact that The city has been awarded a grant to, for a Smart Growth 40R consultant. to look at the whole Railroad Ave corridor. So that's… takes some time for that to get underway by the hire consultant and everything, and then our… our work will start. Maybe early in 2027. Okay. Is there anything more, then, to talk about? For… What you see coming out of the Compass plan for us?

Alex Koppelman I think those are the two big ones to focus on. There certainly are some other zoning-related recommendations, but I think we want to start with… where we can make the biggest impact, and where we have resources to support the process. So, I think it would be good to focus on smart growth zoning, start exploring 40Y, And we can reserve the other ones for afterwards. Some of those things, you know, you already work toward… you're already working towards, kind of.

Jane Remsen programs.

Alex Koppelman zoning, so…

Jane Remsen Bye. Yeah. Okay. Anything? Anybody else have anything for Alex?

Shawn Henry Not necessarily for Alex, but just… in general. It's unrelated to our own planning, but given, question 7, I think it is, about.

Jane Remsen Housing.

Shawn Henry 5,000 square feet.

Jane Remsen 1,000 square feet.

Shawn Henry Yeah, and have we begun, or should we begin soon, a, sort of an analysis of How that might… impact us, specifically? In terms of a… count of potential… Subdividable. parcels that exist now and should that pass or is that something we should wait until Don't spend energy on it until it passes. or if it passes.

Alex Koppelman Yeah, I think we'd want to see the outcome of the ballot measure. But it would certainly relate to some of these other things about trying to bring about attainable homes, and Homes that people are able to buy.

just.

Jane Remsen So.

Steve has his hand raised, did you… did you want to.

Jane Remsen Oh. Oh, yeah, sorry, Steve.

Oh, I think you're muted. Oh, you're having trouble.

Jane Remsen Can't hear you.

We can't hear you.

Jane Remsen Never mind, he says. I can lip read.

Hehehehe.

Jane Remsen When you were talking about smaller infill housing, you said you listed a couple of types. cluster… I mean, sorry, not cluster, cottage style and whatever. Are those things that we can start looking into? That… Like, what were the small infill type… what are the… Small infill housing types. That you identify.

Alex Koppelman Yeah, accessory dwelling units, like you said, cluster cottages, so just small homes, first floor homes that are, aging-friendly. three families, townhouses. There's a great resource that is linked in the plan called Living Little that goes through a lot of these different housing typologies, and good examples of where they've been encouraged in other communities, so I think that would be a good place to look.

Jane Remsen Okay. Part of this is educating ourselves. Sure. Okay.

Alex Koppelman And when I join you again after we've gotten a little bit more research underway on 40Y, we can look through some of those small housing types so you can see what they look like.

Jane Remsen That I can help move this process forward between now and December. Is there anything you can think of that we can do? We're between now and February.

Alex Koppelman Yeah, I think, you know, the next item on your agenda around cluster zoning…

Jane Remsen finish up what we're talking about. Yes, the cluster.

Alex Koppelman the.

Jane Remsen Funny.

Alex Koppelman I think that's best to focus on now. In terms of supporting, let's say, the the smart growth zoning chapter 40R, we could share some examples so that you can just get more familiar with what what it looks like. We could share the the template zoning so you can familiarize yourself with that. And then I think also it'd be helpful to just start mapping out the important stakeholders in downtown that we want to engage in. So some of the property owners but also the businesses and. The folks who, you know, need to be involved in this process, so starting to map out who we need to be talking with.

Jane Remsen Okay. Well, we'll rely on you mostly for that, though. So…

Jane, I think it might make sense, you know, if I send out some resources on 40Y, I think it's an interesting framework, because as you know. it was, I think, your initiation to all of a sudden… not all of a sudden, but, you know, kind of, we moved in the direction of looking at, housing size. Yeah. And so it's interesting to see how…

Jane Remsen In the OSRD, yeah.

Interesting to see how that matches up with, with the 40Y, because it's actually… they're actually a little bit more lenient.

Jane Remsen Similar, yes. That's what I started to talk about at the last meeting, and then I realized. I was kind of… I was leaping over the… The way I got there, so yes.

So, I mean, I think where we kind of left off And I'm not sure if it was just time, or what it was, or it was our first meeting in a while, time, energy, all the things. It might be… it might be interesting to… I don't think we have to go too far backwards. But it would be interesting to kind of lay those two kind of, those sets of variables next to each other, and kind of make a decision about whether or not… if that seems like a direction to go in, rather than, you know, continue to try to refine, you know, what we were… what we were working on. Because it did take a very different direction from the… how much, you know, 50% open space and all the open.

Jane Remsen specifically.

Reservation versus housing type.

Jane Remsen Okay.

and, you know, If the ultimate goal is to try to. Get the housing type that matches the need. Then it may be a little bit less about you know, some of the tenants of the Cluster Development Ordinance.

Jane Remsen So… Huh.

If we're gonna do… it may be one or the other, rather than trying to necessarily meld the two together. And at the end of the day, if… If the incentive is more units. that's the incentive that the Board is offering for a different type of development, rather than necessarily, the way that it's currently framed.

Jane Remsen Okay.

Shawn Henry Well, it seems like the… if we're gonna focus on the. the example Alex gave, but Cottage clusters, you know, small small homes, clustered And, you know, throughout the district, because they can support them. It seems like that would be a separate… ordinance option,

Alex Koppelman you.

Shawn Henry for development that we could take a look at, too. Sort of similar to the discussion we were having at the last meeting about, you know, sort of incentivizing those Smaller home. multiple home developments. with the Osrd That we were looking at, but instead have that focus on some of the… The smaller districts that are. Do have access to water and sewer, so that if they're currently limited to. But either a duplex or a three family.

you.

Shawn Henry Come up with a method of. Development within an ordinance that would allow somebody to. come in and pitch, say, doing, I don't know, 5 or 6 individual cottage units, which Nothing on our ordinance currently allows, I don't think. Correct? We don't allow currently.

Well, I mean, there's no restriction on size, and I would say that, you know, the current OSRD kind of moves you in that direction of being able to use a smaller lot size. The current cluster doesn't require you to lot anything. So I think there's…

Shawn Henry The cluster development and the OSRD both specifically, I think, target the… larger… parcels, Because they do have that focus on land open space preservation, whereas. If somebody is, say, going to do, wants to do this, one of these. small cottage clusters. in, say, R10 or R20, there's no ability to do that right now, I don't think, within our ordinance, that you're limited to 2 or 3 family, unless you go special permit for multifamily, but I don't think… I don't know that the multifamily would apply to separate individual cottages on the same lot.

Thanks, bro.

Jane Remsen Just as a point of order, we seem to be moving on to the continued discussion of the draft open space residential development.

Shawn Henry No, no, I was trying to…

Jane Remsen No, I think it's a great point, and I have something else to say about it. Alex, do you want to hang out and… contribute to this as we talk about it? Do you…

Alex Koppelman Yeah, sure.

Jane Remsen I don't want to keep you… okay, so, Egremont, Massachusetts, has a cottage cluster development ordinance, which allows up to 4 homes on 1 acre, but a bonus of up to 8 homes on 1.5 acres if the builder includes affordable units. I mean, it's just… Kind of interesting, and apparently Hamilton, required… Common Open Space, or did a cottage housing development, which I can't find, but it's in Google. And it's just… It could be an interesting, Interesting way to get what we all want. Yes, no. Yes. Anyone? Anyone? Yeah.

Jane Remsen And, you know…

Shawn Henry Yeah, no, I was not… I was not necessarily moving back towards an OSRD slash cluster ordinance, more so Trying to focus on that, those cottage clusters in our. smaller, zones, R10, R20. But I think, sort of an example of this is on the end of High Street, on the right side as you turn High Street. I think it's 4 units. that are on A parcel there. And they're built as… individual, I think they're two-story units, but they're… Oh, you mean on the…

Jane Remsen the corner of High Street in Washington.

Shawn Henry Yes.

Jane Remsen Yes. Yes. I thought you meant the end.

Shawn Henry No.

Jane Remsen Yeah, yeah, I've I've been all through them. And they they are there's a two family and another two family and a three family, maybe. Yeah. In a… on a common courtyard.

Shawn Henry Yes.

Jane Remsen driveway situation.

Shawn Henry And I don't know what process they went through. When they were developed, but it seems…

Jane Remsen They weren't developed altogether. I know the guy. He bought one, did it, bought the other, did it, bought the third, and did it.

Shawn Henry But it seems to further that goal of, sort of, the infill development. Cottage Cluster. example that's in in the housing compass that It would require, or would benefit,

Alex Koppelman one.

Shawn Henry The process, if we came up with a Ordinance specific to promoting that type of thing.

Jane Remsen Yes. I still really want to get rid of both the open space residential design and the cluster that's on the books. Do you know what I mean? I don't want to have, like. Or paths that people can choose from that, And the 4 being… or the 3 right now being subdivision, cluster.

Shawn Henry Right.

Jane Remsen OSRD, and then we add another one on top of that. I want to make sure that we get one. That's in addition to subdivision. That works for our goals, once we decide what…

Shawn Henry makes.

Jane Remsen What the goals are.

Shawn Henry Right, I think this one would be specifically targeted at, again, our smaller lots.

Jane Remsen Yeah.

Shawn Henry the… whatever we come up with for… to replace OSRD and cluster, you know, I think.

Jane Remsen Megan.

Shawn Henry A minimum of… I think we recommended three, but it's six acre minimum or 10 acre minimum. And this would be focused much more on, again, sort of that infill development. that is talked about in parts.

Jane Remsen Wouldn't it work flexibly for more? Like, from small to large, with medium.

Shawn Henry Well, I think… My thought would be, anyway, that The ordinance that's targeted to these small cottage clusters infill development in R10 and R20 would not have, preservation component for Open space. component. it wouldn't really address that. Whereas for the larger developments, when you're looking at R40, R80, You would, by default, want to have some sort of open space Component in that, whereas they're looking at a small R10 parcel. and Having an open space requirement is sort of defeat the purpose of.

Jane Remsen Right.

Shawn Henry to promote them. multiple small units.

Alex Koppelman Right.

Jane Remsen Right. That's a good idea. That might be 2 ordinances then. But that's okay, because it would be if you're. Different goals. 5 acres or less, you do this, and if you're… 5.1 or more, you do that.

Shawn Henry Right. Yeah, targets. Targets. different. Parcel size.

Jane Remsen Alex, any thoughts? a reaction?

Alex Koppelman Well, I was actually just looking up the Living Little report. I don't know if you'd all want to just check out some of the examples in there, as it might inspire some thoughts. Do you want me to share my screen and give you a look at that? So, I will share the link to this website, but it has a lot of different small attainable housing types. It's an interactive website. It also links to a report. This one was tailored towards some communities down on the South Shore that actually might have some similarities to our coastal community up here on the North Shore, but you can see, that this is the cottage housing, and

Alex Koppelman the way that it's structured is you have these small cottages that, you know, the idea with that is that it's going to be more friendly for an aging household. It's going to be a home ownership option that's going to be Easier to attain than a large single-family home on a big lot with a big piece of property that ends up being very expensive. And they're clustered around shared open space, and then you have parking, that can be shared as well. So it's making really, efficient use of the land to have these small, smaller housing types. You can do them on a single floor, or two stories. You know, it is a bit of an adjustment, they're not for everyone, but they are popular for folks who are trying to purchase their first home, as well as for

Alex Koppelman Seniors who are looking for a smaller home that's easier to maintain and less difficult to navigate. So. can see, this is another example of how the site layout could be. There's good examples of these in Concord, Dennis, Wayland, Weymouth, and then there's, examples across the country that you could look into as well. The unit size of the homes is around 900 to 1,500 square feet. You know, obviously construction is how you want it, but that's… that's a way that it could be done, and that's all on a lot that's a fourth of an acre or larger. About 10 feet setbacks between the cottages.

Alex Koppelman The other thing, as it relates to areas that may not have water and sewer, is that this green space could serve both as recreation for everyone living in the area, but also you could have a leaching field there for septic if you don't have water or sewer, so it can Fulfill multiple purposes. So this would be interesting to look at. There's case studies in here. So a really popular one is Riverwalk in Concord. There's one in Dennis that would be good to look at, and then even one in Hamilton. So…

Alex Koppelman Just to give you a sense more of what we're talking about when we're talking about cottage clusters.

Jane Remsen Wow, the one in Concord's really pretty. I know where that is.

Alex Koppelman Yeah, they're very popular.

Jane Remsen Yeah.

Alex Koppelman Is this…

Jane Remsen Look at that. That's just… Right?

Alex Koppelman Yep.

Jane Remsen So great.

Alex Koppelman So, I mean, if there's one of these in one of these communities that we like, we could go and just take a peek at their zoning bylaws and see if there's things to replicate.

Shawn Henry Good idea.

Jane Remsen Each house is so cute and different. I want to live there. Thanks. That's really helpful.

Alex Koppelman Yeah, and, you know, just bearing in mind that zoning was written in the 70s, and it's, you know, it's…

Jane Remsen Yeah.

Alex Koppelman It's very old, and it's really hard to fix it. It's really more, I think, better to focus on what are we trying to get and how do we get it, so maybe you just write an overlay zone that allows it. And you use that in areas that make sense.

Jane Remsen Right.

Alex Koppelman In terms of the existing zoning, I actually think it's good for people to have options. You know, the more permitting pathways, the better, I think, unless… There's an issue with one of those where you use… you need to… Take, you know, address that, and then maybe you want to get rid of the existing.

Jane Remsen Well, yeah, the cluster, we think. Just hasn't worked that well, or the outcomes haven't been what we would like to see. So. But we can talk about that further. And then the OSRD, no one has ever used. So, what's it doing there? Just causing confusion.

Alex Koppelman Okay, gotcha.

Jane Remsen And it's been there for a long time. Right? 10.

20.

Jane Remsen you.

Oh, longer than that.

Jane Remsen Yeah.

I didn't write it, so it's been here a while.

Shawn Henry The.

Jane Remsen Oh, there you go! Hmm. Okay. Why? So… What do we do next then, Greg, on the OSRD.

Well, I mean, I think we should look at those two examples. And kind of… Almost doing, like, a…

Jane Remsen Concord and something else. What?

Well, I think we should look… we should look at Cottage, 40Y, and where we ended up.

Jane Remsen Okay.

And make some decisions about, you know, whether to continue Like you said, if it has an intention, and Sean mentioned this, you know, if… If it's something that may work better for the larger lot districts.

Jane Remsen then.

And, you know, there's an option there, and then it would be looking at, you know, where do we think… I mean, it's nice to have a, you know, kind of a proof of concept with some of these… with some of these built, and know exactly what the dimensions are, and you could almost, you.

Jane Remsen And how it feels.

And take a look at what that would look like if it were dropped into, you know, an area that has a similar size lot that would comply. So I think, you know, that… Combination of those three things, trying to figure out maybe they're not all allowed everywhere, but also taking a look at, you know, the differences between them and where they might be applicable. I mean, I think it does get at one of the Compass goals, and… Goals… Critiques, you know, however you want to look at it, of, you know, the housing answers to the community need needs to be more than just in the downtown area. And so, you know, how do you, you know, promote

Options that are… are real, attainable. In other areas, and it, you know, obviously the size of them. how they may be restricted on sale. I think 40Y does have some income level restriction in their sales prices, but they're not very high. Or I should say they're not very low. So that's, I mean, that's the challenge. I mean, you said it, Jane, you said, wow, that's so cute. I'd like, I'd like to live there. There's a market for it, which means.

Jane Remsen has.

value and it may not necessarily be something that's attainable. So without some form of restriction, but… again, if there's so many that are permitted over what's permitted right now, there's a singular or two that's allowed on a lot, and now you have this option for multiple small units, does it start to make sense? Could also take a look at, you know, what What that housing in those communities has ended up looking like in terms of market. You know, if it's a… You know, 1.2 for that size home, you know, that maybe isn't the best option unless…

Jane Remsen Yeah.

You layer in, you know, affordability requirements, which always gets tricky.

Jane Remsen Yeah. So, maybe you could… could you put together some links, some homework that we can do before and after?

absolutely.

Jane Remsen you That, where we can read, and… Yeah.

Absolutely.

Jane Remsen Just researching at the same time as I'm listening. Not very helpful.

Alex Koppelman Yeah, I think there's a lot to dig through in that Living Little report, and that would be a productive use of time.

Shawn Henry Yeah.

Jane Remsen Okay.

Shawn Henry I think that could be pretty valuable if we could successfully. Get it off the ground and onto the books. So, I think… You're both right. I think there is… would be a market for that type of thing in Gloucester.

Alex Koppelman Yeah, and I mean, some of those homes are gonna end up being expensive, but you know for sure that they're gonna be less expensive than a big single family on a big lot.

Jane Remsen Mmhm.

Shawn Henry Well, I think also it's a Different option for, The person who wants it versus, you know, if you have. 5 individual cottage units, for example. On a lot, but everyone has their own space. It's completely different. Living situation than living inside of a 5 unit. Multifamily complex also, so it gives people that option also, that they can still have a smaller unit like they would if they were living in a multi-family but they're they're not sharing walls they've got their own own space, which I think some people are gonna… value more.

Alex Koppelman Right. Could be downsizing option, and then that bigger home opens up for a family because someone was able to choose a downsizing option.

Shawn Henry Okay.

Jane Remsen Yeah. Okay.

Alex Koppelman So we'll send those around, and anything else that might be good to start digging through.

Jane Remsen Okay. All right. Thank you. Thank you, Alex, very much, and Greg. So the only other thing on the agenda is the continued discussion of the tree preservation regulations, which I can't really do without David, because he is the… the energy behind this, even though I'm… I'm here in body and spirit, but not in energy.

Feedback on the… Beth?

Jane Remsen I don't know.

I'm trying to remember. So we have two more Thursdays in November with no planning board meeting. Do you want to… do you want to meet again next week, or do you want to take a couple of weeks to look through stuff?

Jane Remsen Let's at least… hold on one second, let me look at the schedule. So, our next… We don't… we don't have a planning board meeting tonight, right?

Correct. And we don't have a regular meeting until the 5th.

Jane Remsen We have one that fits. Which is only… how many weeks? Three weeks? That's three weeks.

Yep.

Shawn Henry Do you want to try to take a look at this? Living little. Material, and specifically those cottages and Some of the related ordinances from those. communities, and… Talk about it on the 29th.

That's what I was thinking, maybe that would make sense.

Jane Remsen I am… driving to DC on the 29th. So I'll be in the car and very bored, but I won't be Able to run a meeting.

Shawn Henry Or do you want to switch it to the 28th? I mean, since it doesn't necessarily have to be tied to a Thursday, because we're not…

Jane Remsen That's true.

Shawn Henry I have a planning board meeting later.

Jane Remsen Yeah, I have childcare duties until 5:30 on the 28th. I could do 5:30.

Shawn Henry I think that. Currently, that would work for me.

Jane Remsen That makes an evening meeting for Greg, which isn't very nice.

I can do that, particularly if we do it in this setting. I could do that from home. That's fine.

Jane Remsen Are you sure? Because we can, we can do it. All right. Okay, yeah, let's do that.

During the day Tuesday?

Jane Remsen Yep, I could do Saturday. Not that you need to know the details of my personal life, but take the kids to swimming lessons at 3.30. So I could do, yeah, I could do middle of the day Tuesday, as long as I'm off of, off the phone by, I mean, off the Zoom by 3:30.

What does that look like for you, Sean?

Shawn Henry That would work for me. I don't have anything…

So, like, a 1PM Tuesday?

Jane Remsen Sure.

Okay.

Shawn Henry Does that give you enough time to get the kids and get to the pool?

Jane Remsen Yeah, I have to leave the house at 3:30 to get them to the to the Y at 4:30. It gives me an entire hour to get them.

Shawn Henry Okay.

Jane Remsen Dressed in their bathing suits and into the pool.

So you want to do, like, a 1 to 2.30?

Jane Remsen Sure, that's all.

Okay.

Jane Remsen So that's it, 27.3.

27th.

Jane Remsen Yeah. Add a reminder. There we go.

Shawn Henry And we said 1 to 2.30?

1 to 2 30, and I'll I'll just make a calendar event right now.

Jane Remsen Anybody else have any matters not reasonably anticipated prior to the noticing of the meeting?

Only that we'll catch up on minutes, at the next meeting.

Jane Remsen Okay.

Alex Koppelman I've got one for you, actually. Yeah. So CHAPA is running a citizens training around housing. Specifically for board members and elected officials to just… it's just an… it's basically an educational program sharing all the new best practices around housing, how to go through processes like the ones that you're going through, so it might be interesting to participate in. If you are interested, we could share a link to that, and you just fill out a form, and then they let you know if you're able to participate or not.

Jane Remsen Is that the one that's Mondays at noon?

I think I may have shared that back a little ways when they were… when they first announced.

Jane Remsen Because I started attending them, and…

Alex Koppelman So it's called the CHAPA Massachusetts Housing Leadership Academy. And it would… You have between now and November 10 to apply and then. It runs from… For 6 months, and it's on Tuesdays at 1… from 12 to 1.30.

Jane Remsen That sounds amazing, and also, like, a big time commitment.

Alex Koppelman They're all online. That makes it easier.

Jane Remsen Yeah.

Alex Koppelman Well, anyway, I can share…

Share the information. Yeah. I may have done that, I may have shared that out already, but we can… Appreciate it. I have to say, Alex, you look like a great 70s album cover right now.

Jane Remsen Yeah, you do, because you're on…

Oh.

Jane Remsen Rainbowy.

Alex Koppelman Yeah.

Like, it's a little… little sepia, a little… little…

Jane Remsen It's one 90 minute seminar every month. I could probably do that.

Alex Koppelman Yeah, in case you didn't send it out, Greg, I'll just give you a link. Okay. Yep.

Jane Remsen We have two social events. Hmm. Okay. Thanks.

Shawn Henry I think I applied for that last. Maybe in the spring, maybe in the spring, and… I didn't get… they said they had too many people on North Shore at that point.

Alex Koppelman Okay.

Jane Remsen That's funny because I don't think anyone from Gloucester was doing it.

Shawn Henry I think, I think Deanna had done this. I think this is the one she did previously. Not positive.

Jane Remsen That's correct. Okay. Thanks, That's it then, I guess.

Okay.

Jane Remsen Shawn, I will accept a motion to adjourn.

Shawn Henry I'll make a motion to adjourn.

Jane Remsen I guess I'll second it.

Shawn Henry Right.

Okay. Member Henry.

Shawn Henry Yes.

Member Remsen.

Jane Remsen Yes.

Alright, see you in a couple weeks, and I'll sign us up. I'll probably send some stuff out, tomorrow and Monday.

Jane Remsen Great Thanks, Greg.

Shawn Henry Thank you very much. Have a great weekend.

Alex Koppelman Bye-bye.