Manchester Select Board, Sept. 21, 2026

Okay, [clears throat] [snorts] the clock is actually exactly right. It is 6:30 and this is the September 21st meeting of the Select Board of Manchester by the Sea. Uh this meeting is available electronically via the Zoom link uh that has been provided for viewing and participation and it is being recorded. In the event of a technology failure, the meeting will continue in person. I welcome you all and first order of business here is I ask all who are able to rise for a pledge of allegiance. >> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation

Vendor spots at White Beach. >> [clears throat] >> So, we've had um we had two different uh mobile sauna companies come to the board uh in the spring to request permits for one day um on one-day permits at White Beach for mobile sauna operations. Uh we approved that back in the spring. Uh I think it was a total of three days. One one company used it for one day that was uh Dog Days Sauna and the other used it for two days which is Let's Sauna I believe is the name of the company. Um and they've we didn't uh we didn't allow

them to do that over the summer during the heavy use of the White Beach area. Um [clears throat] offered the opportunity to come back and talk about it for the fall. Uh so uh both companies have reached out to ask what what uh how many days they could potentially uh offer this service at White Beach. Um we have a we have a good test I guess from the spring. We didn't hear any complaints. Um, I think it'd be I would like some direction from the select board as to what we're comfortable with as to how many days we might be willing to uh offer this opportunity for the fall. I would say from now until December. Um, typically we we want to

shut that down for the, you know, rough winter weather storm events, you know, um, and then clean it take a few months and clean it back up. And then that was March and April of last spring. Um so for the first part of this discussion is [clears throat] is the board comfortable with offer offering this opportunity um again this fall and then I think over the winter we really should think about um potentially you know other towns what they do is they advertise the opportunity and allow either lottery or bid type process. um for businesses to pursue those opportunities. Um

so I think I think uh right now we have a request for three days from let's sauna and I don't have a a specific request of days from uh dog days of dog days company but um I think if we my recommendation would be to offer you know four days two and two uh sometime between now and the end of December and then I can work with those two companies to figure out which days each of them will get and get the special permit uh process completed. >> Has dog days been did you say they've been in touch or have not been? >> They've reached out but they haven't >> Oh, no. >> specified how many days or what days they would like.

>> So, they're interested in >> they're interested in coming back. Y >> So, right now there's no cost for this permit. Right. >> Correct. [cough and clears throat] >> Did we talk about looking at that in the past? We did. We did. >> Yeah. So, it'll be something we might want to look at over the winter, >> right? That's what I think. That's what other communities do. >> Yeah. That's my feeling. We're not there yet, but we're >> Yeah, we should think about it though. Private enterprise on public property. >> Then again, it's a >> You want to let the entrepreneurial >> It's a slippery slope, too. It's a slippery slope because we've got the

[clears throat] uh over at Sing Beach, we have >> the Wi-Fi, we got the chairs which of providing a service. Okay. So, I know, you know, I just I don't want to I don't want to curtail that, but if we're going to set precedent, I I just >> just keep an eye >> study. I want to study it and see what >> I'd like to see um you know, how they do in the fall. Uh, you know, obviously we didn't we didn't have any complaints in the spring. If we get no no complaints in the fall, that opens the door to continuing it. I'd also like to know, you know, how much service they're actually um providing, you know, at at the beach. If it seems like something that our residents enjoy and would like,

you know, then that kind of tells us a little bit about how much we would charge because if we charge too much, then the businesses may not want to come back and then you don't provide that service to the residents. So, um, >> it's also what's going on in the neighborhood right now. We're not hearing anything, >> right? >> Good. >> So, we would we would allow you to manage some number of days between now and 1st of December with no promise that it would it would go on. >> Right. I and and I can I can work with the two vendors to uh come back before you to approve the special permit like we did last time. But I wanted before

going too far down the road with them, I wanted to get gauge the select board as to your comfort level with offering >> a few more days in the fall. >> Are these dates consecutive or no? >> Um to we have someone here from Let Sauna. >> Hi. Um so we offered one day this spring um which was a huge success. Um, so we go to different towns in the vicinity and we book out, you know, the different towns love it if switch Beverly. So we're asking for October 4th, 25th, and November 15th. We're currently going to be full-time at Hood Pond and Topsfield for December January. So we're not going to be able to be here at that point. So we were hoping to get a couple days in

especially White Beach >> in the long season, you know, through through the winter. People love to dip. They love to do the sauna. Is there any board of health component to this or No, >> not for not for mobile saunas. >> No, nothing. >> No local board of health. >> The fire chief has already seen the sauna and given us full approval and said he was happy to come and talk to anybody. >> Okay. Uh yeah, I'm good with those dates as long as >> Yeah. Well, I'm good with Tony to take on. >> We don't we don't need a motion on this. Just a consensus of >> Yeah, >> we're fine. >> Okay,

>> good. So, I'll work with Let >> We should have some mechanism in case we get strong neighborhood objection. >> Well, he'll be back. [laughter] But, you know, that the the if something really annoys the neighbors then and and obviously didn't last time, but I I don't want to promise somebody something and then have to say the neighborhood can't stand it. >> Well, I can do three individual special permits for those three dates. >> Okay. >> And um and then we can, you know, take it one at a time. >> Sure. and they have all the right insurance. Uh we we handled that in the spring,

>> so [clears throat] all that's still good. And then I will work with um the other dog days uh to see what dates they're they're looking for and just keep it between now and the end of December. >> The end of December. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Great. Any further discussion on this? I think we're good on that then. >> Okay, we'll be in touch. >> Great. >> Thank you. >> Thanks. All right. Discussion items. The housing production plan. It just was not enough reading time in my life to get through all of it, but I got through most of it. >> So, let's see. Is that you, Tony? Or uh

>> Mark is here. And >> we got Mark and we've got um >> Mark and Chris are here. >> Sy's coming. Oh, okay. Reinforcements. Reinforcements. [clears throat] >> I sent the board a memo. Um I one one thing that has come up in the past when we were looking at plans was I think Kathy you had brought it up was uh how does this layer into our master plan? So, that was one of the things wanted to take a look at and it seems to be very consistent with the 29 master plan as far as um housing policy goes. Uh increasing the diversity of housing types, addressing the needs of seniors, families, first-time buyers, low and moderate income households, preservation

and redevelopment of the housing authority properties. Um it also layers in recent changes in zoning related to MBTA zoning ADUs. Um it emphasizes uh mixed use and multif family housing opportunities and the use of town and CPA um and other resources like the affordable housing trust. Um, so very very consistent uh with the 2019 master plan and builds nicely off of the previous 2020 housing production plan. Um, it does speak a little bit to uh it has goals in there as to how how

we're going to meet the housing production goals in the community. Um the current plan really emphasizes uh smallcale um [snorts] smaller scale opportunities um public property ADUs um other strategies like that. Um so overall the plan is in very good shape. Uh, I think that I think the planning board did an excellent job and and Kathy is that was Kathy the name of um the consultant >> um who worked on the previous plan or Karen I'm sorry Karen and she worked on the previous plan too.

>> Yeah. >> Right. So >> um there there was two things I [clears throat] did highlight for the select board regarding the largecale chapter 40B proposals. Um there are uh the the two biggest ones there are the SLV proposal and the JAG proposal. Um SLV uh is is has gone through a process of getting their permit through the state and the details related to their development are pretty specific and clear and identified in a formal process. Um whereas JAG hasn't really gone through that process yet and has had preliminary discussion about uh their proposal which um I believe is

still in flux some of those details. So I did I did note that some of the specifics regarding the JAG proposal uh it may it may not be appropriate to to detail those in the plan given this is a five-year plan and those specifics could change. Um however I think it makes a lot of sense to identify the the JAG development proposal generally speaking. Um so those are my comments. >> The both the um Shingle Place Hill and um the JAG numbers are wrong in in the plan. They're the original proposed numbers and not those that have been negotiated

so far. So they should should be 136 um and 245. >> What's it what's in there for Shingle Hill right now? >> 146 15 something. >> Oh, okay. The original >> Yeah. Yeah. They're they're the original proposals. But um may I ask about the chart on page 64? Sorry, I'm here. >> Number of units. >> Um you may keep that. I've got a lot of some I talked to Sarah about it and I've

got some notes in there and they're not terribly rude. >> Yes. You're my question is do you actually think you're going to be able to produce when when we have produced almost no units in the past five years except powderhouse hill which is not quite done. You think you're actually going to be getting those numbers? >> Probably not. We might do better. It's hard to tell. But yeah, this is just a plan. It's not a promise. Uh, I do want to say one thing before we get into this in too much detail. [clears throat] We didn't do this just for the fun of it. This is a state law that requires that we do it. It's part

of chapter 40b and if we don't have a an approved plan by the state, we can't get to safe harbor. So, >> there is some urgency on our part to get this done. Currently, our existing plan is um is uh it's over. It's done. It's it's terminated. So, we have to get a new one approved. Otherwise, we're sort of left hanging out there, >> which we are already, >> which we are anyway, but it's just one more one more thing to do. I know. >> No, generally the the plan is really good, I think, but some of the numbers just worry me. >> So, there's a lot of data in here. The

data is from the US census and from the assessor and a bunch of sources >> and sometimes sometimes it's adjusted. >> Sometimes it's adjusted for inflation and sometimes it isn't. And >> exactly. Yes. It's the best we can do. Um and uh we were thinking of having a disclaimer saying that's the case that this is just the best data we have. But I think generally the data tells us what we know is that housing is becoming more and more unaffordable in Manchester. And I'll give you an example of that. Uh the median price of a single family house in Manchester is now a million $380,000. And to qualify for a mortgage for a house like that, you need an income of $323,000

roughly. Now, I'm not making 323,000. I'm not sure if you all are or not, but I could not afford to buy my own house today. And I think that's true for most of the residents of town. And I think that's an untenable position for us to be in, frankly, for the long term. >> Well, the median income in town is 200. Right. So half of the people in town, their income is less than that. >> Never mind the 300. >> So a $26,000 [clears throat] income you can buy a 600 uh sorry $860,000 house. There are some condos you can probably buy for 800,000. But >> this this is all assuming a certain equity position on all of this.

>> Sure. I'm assuming just based just based on your income. >> That's correct. >> Yeah, that's [clears throat] correct. That's a household income. >> Yes, that's a household income. >> A household of three, I believe. >> Yeah. >> So, you're putting that third that kid to work, too. [laughter] [clears throat] >> Andy should be carrying his own weight at this point. >> Yeah. >> So, this is not a road map. It's compliance. Uh well, I mean, it's sort of a we thought if we're going to go through the trouble of doing this, let's try to make it as as productive as we can. We did have a couple of forums about this subject. We met without the affordable

housing trust to talk about their needs. So, there's been a lot of discussion about this over the last six months. >> Um is it worth mentioning the business about the progress toward u getting compliance. The half a percent 1% so people don't have the 115 number in their heads they have a number of 11 >> on an annual bas. >> Every year that's right but we got 29 units coming online from powder house >> and that took how long? long. [laughter] >> Okay. >> Well, hopefully we're going to get to that >> for compliance. You're talking they have

to meet all this statutory regulation. >> That's correct. They have to be listed on the SHI, which is >> and so that's that's seems highly unlikely, but okay. So, if I've got if I want to build a two family and I want to turn the second unit into an affordable unit that meets the SHI >> and there's all kinds of hoops I have to jump through, including uh not even not a lottery, but coming off the uh Okay. So, I can't even rent it to who I want it. So, if I want to put my kids in that second unit and call it an affordable unit, it might be affordable, but it doesn't meet the SHI requirements. >> That is correct. and you need a deed restriction and a deed restriction is no.

>> So I mean it's it's a regulator it's not going to you know with all due respect it's not going to uh >> take care of the state requirement. It might take care of the the reality of trying to help people getting into town but it still has the hammer of the state way over us as far as meeting we still got to meet the SHI. >> That's right. Yeah. But we can get there with projects that are at scale of 10 or 15 units per project which Harbor Lightite or Newer CDC could do. And if we do one of those every year for the next 10 years, we get there. >> Uh >> and you were on the uh the MBTA zoning, both of you, right? >> Yes. >> Do we have parcels that big enough to to

take those 10 units? >> Not in the downtown, >> but actually, yeah, there are parcels around town that are big enough. Sure. >> It's hard to find them and they're very expensive. Questions? I >> mean, my my my general comment is first of all, you don't digest all of this in one sitting, two sittings, five sittings. It takes [snorts] a couple of weeks or more because it's there's just so much >> the the the Yes, maybe many months. It takes takes quite a while because there's so much data here. Um, [snorts] but what struck me I mean your first comment is exactly correct when it says housing production plan. It's an

affordable housing production plan. Okay. It's not a housing production plan per se and afford affordable housing is a need not only here. It's it's a societal need. We needed that. I don't care what town you're in. You need it pretty much uh everywhere. the concerns that are specific for Manchester independent of that. I've certainly put that as part of it. Of course, my my concerns are downsizing seniors and this doesn't really address that. >> It discusses it, but it doesn't give answers to it per se. And the other one is families. I want kids. And that's, you know, those are those tend to be bigger units. And that's not necessarily address. is just trying to get affordable housing in in into uh into

the town. >> To that point, it becomes it's a big cycle. >> Okay. So, as downsizing seniors move into these smaller units that opens up. >> So, it does open up the Okay. But now we're talking I'm sure. >> I'm sure he's looking to sell his, you know, threebedroom, two bedroom, you know, two bath ranch for $1.1 million. So it doesn't meet the need in that regard. >> So one thing I do want to say is that 40B is a great thing for creating housing. It doesn't really create housing that that's needed by the people of Manchester. >> No, >> because the units are most of them are market rate and the ones that are eligible for the SHI for the 80% of AMI,

those are unaffordable for a lot of people in town also. So it's not really addressing our needs so much as fulfilling the SH fulfills the state's needs. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Which we have to do. So I I understand. But in general, just in terms of data, >> which cuts across everything, it's not just a portable. The data are the data in terms of the statistics. Uh it's it's a it's a good source document for that. >> No, no question about that. So um I still haven't read all of it. working on it. They're climbing up [clears throat] the summary. >> So, we are working on a a two-page summary >> which is I don't have copies here

because we're still >> we're still working on >> Okay. Is that more condensed than of course the executive summary? >> It's even more condensed than >> that's a six page deal. This is >> that's the latest. >> Remember I got through college on cliff notes. [laughter] >> These are the cliffnotes. I guess is there a number everybody see? >> Yes, >> that's good. I I also noted um >> in uh Ann's page she referenced 64 which is the 146. I'm not sure how you was 146 a significant number is that dealing with it's just the number you you came to after 5 years. >> Yeah. >> And you did in year five you said well maybe 40B is in there but then you just

put in filled in a number for affordable housing. And of course, you don't get affordable housing without having market rate housing. You had another column there. You said market rate. And if you're getting 20 affordables um and this is affordable, not in terms of 40b, but affordable that that are priced that way, you're also getting, you know, many more that are that are market rate. >> Sure. >> So, and I think the other concern is we as [clears throat] we increase the number of units Okay. >> Then the SHI >> delta for uh for for SHI eligible units continues. So we could call it an affordable unit, but it doesn't meet the

state mandate. So now our number grows. >> That's right. >> Yeah.

the expansion is behind retail. Um, and if we're looking for for development like that, um, that that really does fit our our town. >> Absolutely. >> Uh, one of the things that I learned from this process that Karen Sunberg, the the consultant, told us was that it's possible to do a 40B with just one unit. You don't need to have a project. It could be one 40B. [clears throat] >> Well, how do you make 20% of >> How does anyone make money? Apparently, it happens. It's rare, but it does happen. >> Yeah, it is rare. >> Well, I mean, they still allow offsite. Okay. For instance, I know that uh on Central Street uh those all those units

on those that uh is it two two units, three units at Windover. >> Oh, yes. Okay. >> Across from the former. >> Yeah. And they did that in exchange for construction elsewhere. So, that's a lot, right? >> Yes. That's still >> I know Hamilton's done a bunch of habitat projects. Those must all fit in, right? >> Yeah. Single. Yeah, sure. Those are single family usually. >> Okay. >> The other thing they're all on a small little lots though, basically. >> Yeah. I mean, the habitat stuff is usually in a small lot. So, I was at a meeting two weeks ago with a group of people from other towns around us, including the city of Gloucester, to talk about a regional organizing

services organization that would help us with things like powerhouse. [snorts] >> And we would all sign up uh and pay a yearly fee or whatever. And the group would then have access to a professional services to help us >> put these deals together. And that mean those meetings are going to continue. That's actually part of Gloucester's housing production plan is to set this up. And uh all of us sitting around little towns are think it's a pretty good idea. >> Oh, we could have used that five years ago with >> we could have we absolutely could have >> you know we didn't know. One other observation and I think I I mentioned this to you. Your your rental data includes the housing authority.

>> Yes. that skews things >> tremendously where the average rent is $500. >> Yeah. >> So to try and make conclusions and there is a oneliner that says it includes the housing, but it it really doesn't acknowledge this is how much it it skews it, but I I know what the numbers are over there and it it skews it a lot. So we wind up with rentals that uh what was your average? $1,700 >> something like that, which should be probably 3,000. >> Yeah. Yeah, it should be. You need another thousand bucks on that. >> Yeah. >> To say this is what might be typical. So, um they should have carved that out. >> Yeah. I think >> that's a very separate group of

>> group of units. So, um where are we? This is really just uh any more to discuss on the housing production plan. So, um it's really just a discussion. I mean we all I think in general think it's a document that's um well done provider >> at some point you have to adopt it so it goes down the state >> no not exactly um the next step if >> what is the next step >> the next step would be for the so this document needs to be submitted to the executive office of housing and livable communities for their review and approval. So, the planning board has approved the draft. The select board

[clears throat] would then need to vote to approve this draft. We can still make those few edits that you've mentioned tonight and then submit [clears throat] that draft to the to the state for their review. Sometimes they they approve it as is and sometimes they might send back comments like we want some little more detail here or there about uh some items. So, um, that's the next step that would be for this board to vote to submit the draft to EOHC. >> Can I like to ask the last production plan? [snorts] >> Did we meet those goals? >> Did we meet them? >> No. >> Okay. >> And the state knows that. >> State knows that. Well,

>> so there's no reason for the state to believe that we're going to meet these goals either. >> Well, at least we're setting up goals. [laughter] Do you do you have a timeline for this mark for the COC submission or >> it's up to your board? >> What what [clears throat] >> So you submit it to them, they send it back. Is there a deadline for all of this? >> Well, I mean, it's up [clears throat] to a town to decide whether they want to have an approved test in production, but you're not required to do so. you don't want to, >> but there are penalties. >> There are things that you can't you can't uh claim safe harbor under cons

and other things. >> Let me rephrase. >> Um, our previous plan has expired. >> Yes. >> Is there an urgency to get a new plan? >> I wouldn't call it an urgency, but I would I would say that I would recommend that if you if the board is comfortable to vote to that was drafted to the Commonwealth so that either they will approve it or they will send the feedback okay to you. I mean I think in general we you can discuss and amend and change wording and details in any plan >> whether it's a master plan or a village plan. >> Let's let's see what the board thinks. I move to approve the housing production

plan uh for submission to EOHLC. >> Second discussion >> motion. Kathy, >> yes. >> And >> yes, >> Brian, >> yes. I mean, it's I think it's just a paper >> tiger here, but Okay. Yes. >> And Jeff? >> Yes. >> John's votes? Yes. If you've heard what the comments are, they're not, you know, >> I guess I would phrase it. I don't think we have any substantive >> no >> changes that we're recommending. There's some, >> as Ann mentioned, some data we need to tweak, but >> it's just it's >> we don't have anything observation. >> Thank you. >> And how long does it take for uh the

state to get back to us? >> We have 90 days.

>> Okay. >> All right. Good. We'll look forward to hearing from you in 90 days. >> Well, 91. >> 91. >> Something like that. Okay. Um, capital plan.

>> I'm just >> Yeah, it's okay. This is uh just going from numbers to numbers. you get a copy of you asked for the um Excel spreadsheet version of the PDF capital plan book that we put together which I sent out on Friday. >> [snorts and clears throat] >> Um the first page is uh just listing our

existing capital with uh uh 2026 planning level cost and identifying the target date of um when we would take on that capital project and seek capital funds. And the second sheet essentially puts that in chronological order. Um, we're looking at we we've got everything on here from sidewalk replacement, fleet schedule, street lights, uh, you know, annual type of capital to larger projects like um the Ocean Street Project, the library, Central Street, Culvert, dredging,

um, Reed Park dock extension, ratunda, you know, a number of different items. Um, I think this We I have collected fleet schedules from each department. Uh they're all in different formats, so I'm working on consolidating those into one format. But we did estimate um an average spend on fleet when you take into account um police [clears throat] vehicle, fire department vehicle, DPW vehicles, and it fluctuates significantly from year to year, but we average around 500 per year. >> [snorts] >> um whether that be putting some money into the fire engine replacement fund or actually uh purchasing, you know, it's that third year where we're purchasing a

fire engine or or um with the DPW uh we've completed a lot of um fleet purchases on the larger equipment, back hoe, excavator things, uh front end loader, large dump trucks. Right now, for the next few years, we're pretty much just working working on the F350s and 450, you know, small dumps, which range around um you know, 70,000. We uh police vehicles are on that same same range and we're usually purchasing one [clears throat] every year. And then we also layered in uh we're layering in the harbor as well, which isn't an annual need. So, um still working on that. That'll be the next sheet background

backup sheet that you'll have. So you can actually see the details. It's how that money fluctu how that amount for fleet fluctuates on an annual basis. Uh we also incorporated a 2 and 12% uh inflation cost here. So as you look in the out years the pricing of these increases. Um >> for the items that have to be bonded what are you using as an interest rate? uh we don't we we don't include that in the in this >> okay >> portion. Uh when you remember the capital plan book, we start with these sheets and then kind of building up what our estimated cost of the project or piece of equipment is. >> Then we get into what that debt schedule

looks like based on bonding and things of that nature. So it's kind of a layered approach as to how you look at it and how that impacts you know the tax rate and things like that. >> So one of the things I think would be helpful as we do our capital planning is to um annotate however you would like to do so what has already been through the facilities planning committee process. Um like some of these we have begun looking at like the DPW public safety. Um we haven't done anything with Harper master office other than take a tour. Um haven't done anything around the town hall remodel library expansion. Um so I

just think there's there [clears throat] are things that are um on our plate [clears throat] and things that are not. And uh I think it would be helpful to to know that >> I'm sorry what is SS1 >> I'm sorry Cside one. Okay. Yeah. >> Would uh based on your comments I think what would be best is to have that as like a separate appendix where you just take those facilities that would trigger the FPC and have that as kind of a secondary a separate sheet. >> We do. I think the question is um the only reason I thought it might be helpful to to annotate it somehow is if

there's something that the select board wants to pursue and we clearly haven't looked at it yet >> that we want to make sure we don't do the process out of order again and get into trouble like we we did on this. That was my only rationale for that comment. um these grant funded items where do we see our match of it? >> So that that comes in a later sheet in the book. Um it's really difficult to kind to incorporate all that stuff up front. So what we're doing here is just putting down the item of need and what our

projected cost is and what our projected timeline is. And then as you go through those layers, you start to specifically identify the funding sources. Um you know any type of planning or design or study work that would come before it. Uh that comes kind of later in this book. Um, when we when we looked at previous capital plans, all of that was layered in the front and it became very confusing as to projects that weren't on that front page because they weren't triggering town funds because they weren't because they were grant funded. Um, it was kind of presenting like they weren't on the

capital plan, but they were. they just weren't triggering town funding. So, we said, let's start with just listing all of the capital items that we have and those costs and then you kind of walk through the the different layers of information as you as you you know actually evaluate this list. >> So, it breaks it down further later on. >> Yes. And really that tax bill impact or debt schedule item is going to focus closer into a five-year plan. >> So you can kind of as you go through each annual budget cycle, you can kind of see what that projected with more confidence that projected tax bill impact is over five years. Because as

you look at beyond that, you never know how that could change with new projects that pop up or or grant funding opportunities that come up that like to cover, right? So, >> yeah. >> Uh, another appendix that we haven't put on here yet either is Kathy, we talked a little bit about is an IT schedule. So for how much [snorts] how much do we need to be you know setting aside on an annual basis for computers, servers, printers, you know, all of those >> or your software that I worry about. >> Software software is definitely something that we should be capturing. Um >> I'm sorry it doesn't wild

>> whether you consider it as like a capital item or an annual. Yeah, >> it's still when you do an annual subscription, it's still a commitment. So that's why typically you look at it in terms of your capital planning, >> right? Okay. >> Um so what type of feedback are you looking for from us tonight? >> Yeah. Is this just anformational um all on [snorts] >> just information? I think this the other night when we had the joint meeting with the finance committee, we looked we had a little bit of a preview as to what that debt schedule looks like with the upcoming projects. All that stuff is going to layer in together and it's going to be very relevant as we're

making decisions in the upcoming months as to what capital items we're going to include in Springtown meeting. >> Okay. Well, I I mean I have to say this will be much more active. The last year or so and now is much more active with regard to capital than in the previous ones. [clears throat] There's always been a budget, but it just kind of got pushed along, pushed out, and we've now borrow money, which means we're spending money, and we're seeing how that that goes, and we're going to be borrowing more money. So uh it becomes reality. [clears throat] >> You know in municipal finance you know there's really three legs of the stool so to speak of your capital plan your

financial policy and your fin and your uh forecasting. >> Um so they they somewhat layer over each other. uh when when looking at the financial forecasting that we've been working on uh with Andrea and the finance department um you know what I I guess what what stands out to me is the ability you know the small capital that we do every year within the tax levy >> um that tends to get more and more [snorts] pressure on it the amount of money that we are able to spend on that annual capital tends the as you look in the outy years it it gets a lot of pressure on it. So those are things that

we have to keep in mind as we're as we're planning these larger projects and our annual operating costs. >> So that that was in part of course uh the philosophy of the previous regime which was fairly conservative and so there was money there but as you get closer to budget to actual [clears throat] Well, I mean, I think there are some things that we're going to have to talk about because there's some stuff on this list that people have asked for and they are nice to have. [clears throat] >> We've got a lot of mustd dos that are pretty [snorts] expensive and so the nice to haves may not get done. >> And when you are ready to have that conversation, let's have it because I can pick up I'm not going to go into it

now, but I can pick up a few things here that I just don't see they're lower on the priority list, right? you know, so I think we at some point need to have that conversation so that we don't spin our wheels um talking about something that's really it's a it it's distracting to the work we need to do. >> So that's part of prioritizing is talking about what we're not going to talk about and then that because a lot of I this all falls on the plate of the DPW. They're busy. They have so much on their plate. the more we can narrow their focus, I I just think it helps the projects move faster, which ultimately [clears throat] will help them um

costwise as well as schedule. >> Other questions, comments on the big box? >> Thank you for sending out the spreadsheet. It It's >> I can see I can read the letters. [laughter] It is a work in progress. >> It is a work in progress. Uh we'll keep adding to it uh with a goal of, you know, having this all-in picture ready for our springtime meeting prep. Mhm. >> Uh but obviously with falltown meeting right around the corner, we're going to be we're already looking at some of those tax bill impacts on the >> de. Um as I mentioned the other night, the

the largest capital items that stand out to me that we haven't addressed yet through town meeting action. Coming up in the near future, uh is um as you know, we have the school project, you know, in this potentially in the fall. We have the senior center and we have Bennett Street construction which >> one could assume is going to be similarly priced to Tapen. Um and we have the PAS upgrades at Graly Pond which shouldn't be as expensive as what we're doing at Lincoln Street Well. Uh no need to expand the building. Um but it's still going to be [snorts] a big price tag. So those are

the biggest largest capital items on the on the horizon right now. >> What is the timeline on that? Uh so grally I believe we are we are either in or soon to be starting the design phase of that and we have uh we have PAS um is it class action funds I think every town received uh for this and so we were going to be using those funds to help pay or the design costs. Um or addition, you know, we have the language in the um approved borrowing for Lincoln Street

Well includes the ability to use some of those funds for the design of Gralie. Um I don't know if we're going to be seeking construction funds at the Springtown meeting or if it's going to come at the following, but it's it's >> in the next year or two. >> Yes. >> I thought Why did I think that the 2030 date was uh seems [snorts] to be sticking out >> as far as the complian. So the the federal government I believe [snorts] pushed the requirement out a year or two. >> They did, >> but the state did not. So Mass D enacted the same original requirement deadlines when the EPA put theirs in and then the federal government loosened them up, but I don't believe the state did.

So I got to look at I got to look at those. >> [snorts] >> exact dates, but >> so you said there are some class action funds and I was not aware that anything had moved through the courts to a point where there was some money that uh >> I got to maybe >> national level >> maybe I'm let me double check that but but I believe we received some funds um all towns did and I think ours was to the tune of around 800 800,000 >> I mean we did we did an earmark but that was three years ago or two years ago, but that >> federal >> that was at the federal level. >> Yeah. >> But [snorts] I'm not aware that there are any other funds. Been discussions,

but not not that I'm aware. >> I'll get I'll I'll confirm. >> I'm interested. >> Yeah, I'll confirm that. >> Okay. Um Okay. Any further discussion on capital? Okay. Let's move on to town meeting articles. Uh so uh we spoke about this at the joint meeting on Thursday with the finance committee. Uh potential articles for fall town meeting include uh senior community center construction, Essex Elementary School payment for the fire

engine. Uh remember we already put $300,000 in the fire engine fund. We need to come up with an additional $710,927 for that. >> Where's that coming from? >> Free cash. Uh we have the special act ch of uh chapter 270. The special act for requiring any borrowing of over a million dollars requires a ballot vote in Manchester by Sea. Uh so we have a repeal or amendment article to consider there and and I'm sorry I owe you the exact language on that. Um >> and I'd like the rationale of the you know try to understand why it was enacted in the first place.

>> Yes. Yes. Um and again that so for those listening essentially we have a unique to Manchester we have a special act that requires any borrowing over a million dollars uh requires a [clears throat] ballot vote. uh when that when any town pursues that action through a Prop two and a half exclusion, it requires a ballot vote. And so if you remember in the spring when we had five of those capital items exceeded a million dollars, we had two questions for each capital item on the ballot. One to satisfy Prop 2 and a half and one to satisfy our special act. Uh so what we have looked at was either amending our special act that in the case when we

have a prop two and a half requirement to go to the ballot we don't also need to add the question for our special act or repeal that alto together. Um the rationale on repealing it alto together is that in the case of our community um most of the time anything over a million dollars we are pursuing prop two and a half exclusions. So, we're most most of the time, mostly all the time, we're triggering that ballot vote. Anyways, uh we also have a bond payment of water capital. Uh this is $192,65 from the water enterprise. This is generated from the water capital fee uh to pay down the the costs of the uh

water meter project. We talked a little bit about the Prudent Investor Act. Uh >> we need to talk a lot more about that. >> I talked with Jen and [snorts] Andrea today about that and we're doing a joint meeting on October 5th with the finance committee. Uh Jen may join us at that meeting to talk a little bit more about it. Um, I I don't want to uh push it off to spring just yet because after last springtown meeting, we talked a lot about keeping it to a one-day meeting. >> Uh, so if it's if Jen can provide a lot of the information and comfort to the board, and it's something we think we can do in November, I I think it's [clears throat] worth >> it's certainly worth deciding whether or

not we want to do it. >> Yeah. before the ballot closes, >> right? Um and then planning board, uh it sounds like just the uh sign bylaw uh related to the downtown districts. >> That's correct. Yeah. So, we [clears throat] might um have an article. We realized that we did not include the downtown district in a sign bylaw downtown district. So, But in looking at the sign bylaw and I'm discussing it with Paul, there's some things that don't make sense, some things that are confusing, a lot of things that are various types of signs that aren't included or exempted.

So, um, I drafted a short couple page bylaw. The planning board will be holding a forum next [snorts] Monday to discuss uh get feedback from the community 10 as well as kind of present the outline of that draft went through it at the last meeting um and um we'd like to probably move that forward um you know after next Monday. So >> can you give us just an idea of what it is rather than it's fixing things? >> Oh, so [clears throat] so the the way the sign bylaw [snorts] works is um

so we've broken it down by district in the four commercial districts that we have now. and that in each district there's certain size requirements for different types of signs and then a total number of signs. So for example in the general district you might be allowed two signs like one on the building and a freestanding sign. But in the downtown district you most almost all the businesses only have one sign. So you would be allowed one sign whether it's a projecting sign or a hanging sign or or a wall sign. So, and then there are different limit size limitations based on the district. So, then there is a whole section on exempt signs like real estate signs, contractor signs when

they're working on a property. Um, you know, things like the advertising around the little leaf field, right? Or at the beach, right? It's not intended to be read from the road, so it should be exempt. So, there's a list of exemptions. [clears throat] And then there's things that absolutely prohibited. Um we already have that section in there, but we add to it. Um like electronic message boards. I think we'll add neon as well. Um uh to to some other things that internally. >> Okay. So you are in fact going to have different sign regulations for what is the general district, the downtown district and the by the sea district.

Uh, Harbor's Edge District. >> Harbor's Edge District. >> And don't forget the limited commercial district as well. >> Okay. The limited commercial would be quite different, I suspect. >> Yes. And you're addressing permanent versus temporary signs. >> Yes. Yes. So, and like for example, event signs, you know, the flu clinic >> is the special lunch today. [laughter] >> It might be a sandwich board that goes out. >> Yes. So sandwich boards are are something that's allowed. >> Okay. >> With within certain size limitations provided you don't the sidewalk etc. >> Okay. >> We'll look forward to that. >> Do you think we will have a draft of

that uh before the select board meeting on October 5th? >> Yes. So as far as looking at the schedule uh the upcoming schedule the important dates there is that the on October 5th um hopefully planning board articles are submitted and we send them back uh to the planning board so that they can hold their required public forums with proper notice. Um the uh October 5th is also our preferred submission of draft articles uh to the town moderator. So for any um citizen petition articles that might be coming forward, we ask that folks reach out and

speak with the town moderator before or by October 5th. um that'll give two weeks of review time on that before someone seeks signatures. Uh we ask the moderator to take that as a independent body. Um but the key there is that once you get signatures on your citizens petition and submitted, you can't edit the language until you get to town meeting. So he may point out, you know, you have the wrong section of the bylaws referenced here or you should consider adding this language, you know. So we ask people uh to connect with the moderator by then and Tiffany's working with him on getting that information out to the public. >> We have any petitions right now?

>> Not not that I know of. Um and then Monday, October 19th, we have to [snorts] finalize the warrant. Um that's our submission deadline. Uh which is required under our bylaws of 28 days prior to the special town meeting. Um and then of course we have to submit the warrant uh to the Cricut. um by October uh 27th, Tuesday, October 27th. So then it's published in their Friday, October 30th uh paper. Uh and then we have our our standard postings uh required as

well. So this is all for Monday, November 16th town meeting and then uh special election date to follow on Thursday, December 10th. >> Okay, that's the calendar. All right. So, that's the list as it stands now. Any other questions on the potential articles to be revisited many times? Okay. The next one is the Jefferson Apartment Group. Greg, >> you're up. >> Thank you. >> Thank you for sitting through. some of our secret has been let out today. >> Uh so thank you members of select board.

Thank you for allowing us to come back. Uh last time we were here was in May. Uh and over this summer we've it's we've continued I'd say our our listening campaign. Uh we still have some meetings to go including the planning board uh to have a similar conversation about the project as it has evolved and as we've gathered some additional information. So tonight, uh, we're going to let Lauren Chznaki, who's kind of been working really hard on this project and listening up to this point, uh, to kind of highlight, you know, answer some of the questions that we heard from you in May, uh, to illustrate kind of how the changes that we have made up to this point. Um and uh I think our goal uh is to ask you all to consider uh a letter

of support to allow us to take that next step in the 40-year process. It's not a that's not a approval obviously of the project is the project hasn't been really totally developed. Uh it's still kind of move moving. Um so a lot of Lauren to go through that. I want to take a moment to say thank you to members of Gordon College. David Ma and Chris Emming have been working hard from their standpoint. They've had to cooperate with this reduction uh as well that you're going to hear about tonight. Um I like to use uh Tony used the legs of a stool and I use that often as an analogy here that uh we have a we have a land seller who's working with us uh to work with the the with the town. We're trying to get there to a point uh that

that we can be friendly uh and and work through that process. So with that um Lauren >> yep slides help. >> Thanks so much Greg. I'll stick this here. Um and I have copies of the presentation. I know Tony you had sent some of this around. So I'm happy to share if it's helpful to have paper copies as well. Um great. Um so thank you so much to the select board. It's a pleasure to be here with you again this evening. Um I think everyone's pretty familiar with the site. So it's the approximately uh 20 acre parcel. This is actually showing a much larger parcel. Um but Gordon Collegeowned property just off of Pine Street North 128.

Um as Greg had mentioned. So the project has been gone, you know, gone through a lot of vetting really over the last year approximately. Um when Jefferson Apartment Group had first started discussions with the town of Manchester, the proposal was for 300 units generally in this configuration. It was very conceptual um but of that scale. This was before we had done any topographical survey, wetland survey um you know just sort of an initial concept. After having a few months to really get a a literal lay of the land and understanding everything from the topography, the ledge, the extent of the ledge and bedrock that's on the site, the um vegetated wetlands and vernal pools that are on the property. This project was

refined to really set the buildings back into the topography into the hills to set back off all of the wetlands and buffer areas. And this is what the select board saw this past May which reflected 285 units also in the two you know the two parcel configuration the three different buildings. So we heard a lot of feedback and we'll go into this all the different listening sessions that we've had but we heard a lot of feedback at the select board in May that the project was had the scale was still too large um and that there were some additional things to explore just generally the size of the project and some of the impacts on the town and the town's infrastructure. The uh plan that we're coming to you

with today is a smaller plan. Actually, this is a little typo on the left. So, this is 245 units. Um you'll see that the project, the building off to the east, the building C got shorter. That whole wing pulled in. Um and we shifted the mix. It's part of some of these listening sessions. We've heard a desire to have a a larger mix of units, generally speaking. So the project shifted in its site plan um to accommodate the reduction in overall units and the um adjustment in the unit mix. This is now zooming in on the west parcel. So the two buildings that were off to the left, you'll see that they um are set into the topography. The highest point of the site is really right in the center where the courtyard is. Um so

this building is going to look very similar to what you had seen in May. Um again just a shift in the unit mix. Everything in Peach is the common areas, the amenity space, the mail room and infrastructure. You'll see all of the parking that sort of circulates around the building. Uh building A does have some belowrade parking. Um just, you know, sort of as you pull in the driveway and then there's this big circular drive that wraps around the buildings for access. There's two access points off Pine Street. That was some feedback that we had gotten early in the design process. Um and some really lovely outdoor spaces. A lot of units will have balconies or terraces. is really trying to embrace that

indooroutdoor connection for the units. The east building got shorter. So this build this bar extended much more page right. So it it sort of um went even beyond where the gray bar stops and into some of that surface parking. We had some below grade parking on this site initially. Now this is showing um a much sort of reduced footprint. No below grade parking, surface parked. We still have a courtyard with a swimming pool and a terrace. These units will have outdoor space as well. Same thing goes here where the orange or the peach color would be the lobby, the leasing office, some amenity space, etc. Um, and you know, just generally a smaller program. So, the buildings um again are going to look very similar. So, the same

architecture, we got some really good feedback about the architecture. So, that really hasn't changed. again setting into the topography to really break down some of the scale um and picking up on some of the context that we see here in Manchester. So these are the west buildings. Again, similar views from our May meeting. Um this is the courtyard as you're sort of like looking into the courtyard from the south and you see the topography sort of as it works its way up the hill and the building setting into that. The pool deck of course and now this is the view of the east building. We've gone now we're sort of like coming up the driveway and you see the building just ahead of you with that um small

courtyard in the foreground. Um the mix is going to be again skewing a little bit more towards larger units and we'll we'll speak to that a bit more in a future slide. 245 units total. So 160 in the two west buildings and 85 in the east building. This reduces our units per acre from about 15ish units to 12 and a quarter units per acre as compared to the MBTA communities guidance of 15 units per per acre. So we're, you know, modest as it relates to the just the sheer density of the project. We've reduced the unit count accordingly. We're down to 404 parking spaces, but the amenities will really remain the same. So, still fairly nicely amenitized

where there's a clubhouse, a catering kitchen, um areas for residents to relax and socialize, fitness center, outdoor, um patios as you saw with pool, um grills, package room, you know, etc. Um so, they'll be very nicely amenized providing some nice services for future residents. As I had mentioned, we have had a lot of listening meetings along the way. um we came to the select board. So all the meetings pre our meeting in May you were aware of planning board and DPW engineering affordable housing and public safety. Um and then since our May meeting we met with the affordable housing trust, the conservation commission as part of our ANRAD filings. So we're working with the commission on

our wetland delineation and formalizing that. And then we most recently met with the council on aging. All the sessions have been very helpful. We've gotten a lot of really really good feedback and have continued to refine our approach. This just speaks to some of the changes, some of the feedback we've heard and some of the changes that we've made. So I mentioned at the start scale and the density has been um probably the the most common theme and we've reduced accordingly. Um that's you know about a 20% reduction in the unit count. We've heard that um a conservation restrict restriction would be really helpful. So you'll see in a future slide we're proposing over six acres of conservation land really focused on the vegetated

wetland areas, the vernal poolool areas that are so sensitive. We have read the town's housing production plan and tried to tailor the units to seniors um who want to age in place and families who want to remain or move to town. Um we did a very thorough fiscal impact study. We had heard at our May meeting that there were concerns about impacts on the town services. Um, we've committed to lowflow fixtures. That was something that we talked about in May as part of our sewer allocation for this area. Again, very thorough wetland analysis that we're continuing to work with the conservation commission on. Um, and as we get further into the ZBA process, we would study traffic and um, some of the access impacts and you you know already

talked a lot about architecture. These other community benefits are things that we've heard along the way. We got guidance from the select board at our at our May meeting that we really want to vet those with Tony. So, we'll continue to keep the dialogue going there. Um, as it relates to this being a big project in a quote unquote small town as defined by the states 40B, we did find other projects that were considered bigger in small towns. And I think um this just shows uh you know a sample of some of those. Boxboro, Weston, Conquered. The housing production plan speaks to wanting to really limit projects to 10% of the town's population. We're in the 10% range at 245 units. And that was important to us

to really try to um be responsive to the town's guidance there. So, we found it helpful to see there are other data points of large projects um in the greater Boston area and feel like we're, you know, being responsive to the town's HPP in that way as well. Um on the conservation restriction front, I had mentioned the 6.15 acres. That's going to be everything in red. There's another slide that that gets to it as well. It's about a 30%, you know, 30.7% open space ratio, which um feels like a really significant and substantial amount. We worked pretty closely with Gordon College to settle on where those areas would be. So, this is as it looks related to our site plan.

And this is a little bit more of a zoomed in. So you can see the areas in red that are intended to be conservation perpetually dedicated as um as conservation land, you know, and some of this is is a vernal pool buffer, border vegetated wetland buffer um and provides I think a nice buffer to to the buildings themselves. Um this is just really speaking to some of the housing production plan goals that we think we address. Certainly, the creation of new rental units is considered a top priority in the plan. Um, addressing Manchester's housing shortage in general for households at 80% AMI and below. All of the SHI units would be dedicated at that, you know, 80% or less uh threshold, providing

housing, as I mentioned, for families to help reverse the loss of younger adults, downsizing opportunities for seniors, and just generally creating more diversity in the housing stock, which is primarily single family. um and to make use of a town asset, a town property, property in the town of Manchester that is realistic for development where there are not a lot of larger scale opportunities such as this. Um I mentioned this shift. So when we had the 285 units, we had more um we we shifted the percentage. So obviously the total number of units have gone down. So the total of unit the unit count is is um different. But the fact that we're shifting from ones where we had 57% one beds, now we have 53 and then adjusting

accordingly between two and threebedroom units to um to provide options for some of the folks that were mentioned in the town's plan. And um I had touched on the fiscal impact study that was done. So, LDS Consulting is a very reputable fiscal analysis consulting firm and they did a really deep dive um 20 pages worth of data, interviewed several sort of greater Boston area suburbs um to understand how a project like this could impact not only the revenue side, real estate taxes and excise taxes, but also municipal costs like fire, police, and the school system. Um, so after analyzing the

revenues and the expenses, they're estimating a net fiscal impact on an annual basis of $430,000, approximately $430,000. Um, and really significant one-time fees for building permit and sewer tap fees of almost $2 million. Um, the next steps are really to continue our discussion. Um, as Greg had mentioned, we're uh eager to have a um the select board support of the project that would allow the project to advance to the project eligibility process, which is really just allowing the project to move forward to the ZBA public process. So, there's still um much more to to continue to work on with the town and stakeholders. We're also

hoping to plan to present to the planning board um and to continue to to advance our process obviously up up to the ZBA. Um our schedule here very high level but some of the milestones trying to get into the comp comprehensive permit process here in earnest this fall so that we can finish in the spring you know continue to [clears throat] advance our drawings um and start construction. you know, this is projecting the first part of 2028, so a longer term process, but um just appreciate all the town's feedback along the way because it's been really helpful. Um and Tony, all of your help coordinating all this. I know it's a lot um a lot of different opportunities to sit and hear feedback.

So >> that's again I think this is taking cooperation from Gordon College. This is uh reducing this density is significant to both Jefferson Apartment Group and Gordon College, but it's important. We knew we weren't going to move any anywhere keeping it at 300 units. So, uh we hope this is a significant move. Um and we we'd be very excited to to take that next step with with the town. >> How many school age children do you expect to have in this propert? So the um the our report um estimates that we will have I want to say one second one second and you can oh 27 new students.

>> Well you have under your fiscal analysis you have 290,000 for school costs. >> Yes. >> But our per pupil expenditure is close to 30,000. >> Right. So that takes >> come up with that number >> that takes into account the um offset from the state. So I think right now the state offers um like well so the state offers $2,958 per student. So just about three grand per student. Um and our research and this is for the Manchester Essex Regional School System. So, I'm not sure. Um, but they budgeted, they apparently have a $147 million budget

with,30 children. So, the yearly cost per student that they're calculating is 12,500, not 30,000. Um, >> yeah, I don't know. >> Yeah, we're 27 >> 27,000. Regional regional report is about 27,000. >> Okay. I'll I'll check with them on that. >> Okay. And that's um that's resident students. We've got about a 100 choice students. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> And I I think that when you add in these students, they will reduce their choice. [snorts] Choice students don't bring very much money. >> I see. >> But I understand that the marginal cost of a student is not $27,000. >> Right. Right. Right. >> Yeah. So they Yeah. she was trying to

get to. But the average price is that >> the average is that. >> Okay. >> If you can convince us that you you will select residents who have children in the right age group where we have small classes, >> that would be very handy. >> We can work on that too. Okay. [clears throat] Well, that's good. So, let me check on that process. >> Can you talk about your Can you talk about your police and fire? >> Yeah. Yes. So they did um a variety of so they interviewed the the Manchester Police Department. So they got feedback directly from the police department and then they compared [clears throat] it to other towns to basically get to same thing. It was like a cost per call the

cost per call and then they figured out how many calls this project is intended to generate and then did the you know sort of the net impact. Um, so I I mean I could give you more of the details on it, but that's essentially their methodology. And when we heard from Todd, he said we would not need more people on for this. >> $20,000 says, >> I think, well, this is beautiful. >> I think actually I think we felt that it would it was more likely that um a development of this size might lead to additional needs in the police department compared to the fire department. >> But the fire department is twice Right.

Twice as much. >> No price per call. That's right. >> Right. Exactly. >> That's uh because there are a lot of old people in this uh development. >> Again, most of our calls are medical anyway. >> Yeah, they are. >> Right. >> I I think you know even even without this even without this development, former chief and current chief, you know, have made um you know, arguments for the need for additional police officers. uh especially when talking with you know speaking to overtime costs and things of that nature. But so >> I mean does that add additional crews or is it you know I mean where does that begin and end? >> No, that was just staffing because we

have uh that analysis was based on how to reduce overtime and it was a cost. It was cost of adding staff. It didn't require additional fleet. >> It was a matter of having, you know, the number of number of officers on duty per shift and and that type of analysis. >> Can't believe we only have like one crew. >> I mean, there still be some >> there's two crews out any given time. >> Yeah, >> there's always a couple packed out back. >> Uh, one one crew out had four guys, right? Oh, you only have uh >> two out. Two are in. >> I know you're talking police. >> Oh. Oh, police. I'm sorry.

>> It sounds like you spoke with Chief McCoy. >> Yes, our consultant did. Yep. >> Okay. >> We're happy to share this document with you. Yes, we can form. So, yeah. >> Take additional feedback there. That was you made some progress uh with the twobedroom from 37 to 38. I guess that's progress. >> Yeah. >> Reducing 20 >> but I know you reduced the overall count. So that come from >> and most of that came from the one bed obviously. >> Yep. >> But that's where a lot of it was. Yeah. >> Sandy,

>> so I >> thank you for finding, you know, um other smaller communities. That was one of my asks. I really appreciate listening. >> Yeah, sure. Sure. >> Um >> based on the ones that are listed here, I'm pretty familiar with all of them. It looks like Boxboro is the most >> analogous to >> Manchester from a size, acreage, ocean, but you know, they've got their own beads, I guess. Um, so I guess I'm interested in learning more about their experience. Sure. Because they have Looks like they did this about what 10 years ago.

>> Um, yeah, it says paddock estates between 2016 and 2017, right? They've got 10 years worth of experience. So Tony, I think it would be worth a call to them to really dig in because the numbers I think we're all a little I don't know. I'm I'm a little uncomfortable with the fiscal analysis. I know how these things go because I used to do them, but I'm just saying [laughter] it's hard to um get an applesto apples comparison, you know, when you're dealing with very different communities like conquered. It just doesn't that's not even they're not >> um they're not like us at all. Um Weston >> um but Boxboro I think is probably closest. >> Um I think it would be worth having a

conversation just to get an understanding. >> I'm sure they did a fiscal analysis. How close >> was their actual experience to what they thought it was going to be? And getting those facts I think is really important. Yeah, >> we'll ask our consultant as well what's what's they had to look back, >> right? Yeah. >> What's their what's that been their experience? >> Yeah. >> They I'm sure they have to refine their processes over time, right? >> Right. Exactly. [clears throat] >> If we add up all the potential projects on the horizon, where does it leave our sewer capacity at?

Um a lot of the projects a lot of the a lot of the sewer related projects on our capital plan actually produce capacity because they are reducing II and um actually creating more opportunity. But if you look at this the CWMP we don't really have a capacity issue at the plant as the way it exists. In fact, we're overbuilt at the plan. We're making efforts to try to reduce, you know, the energy use there because we have when it was originally developed, it was uh envisioned for a lot larger expansion of the sewer. Um the the trickier part is that the CWMP uh

provides capacity limits in different districts of the town like the LCD. Um so right now the the issue there is that you have CST um Shingle Hill and this development all in the LCD and so there could be some uh you know concerns about that limitation there of all all three of those projects. uh but there's additional capacity in other districts that could be >> but we can't shift capacity right >> you know it it requires an additional conversation with D but our preliminary discussion with them is that as long you

know that they didn't seem to have an issue especially when it comes to housing production you know that they have no problem with that as long as it's not causing a concern for the distribution system from the LCD or uh at the plant itself some of the reservation is for um Raymond Street expansion uh which you know what what's the real reality of that potentially happening in the near term um but >> yeah but it was you know D basically to be honest they said if you need to make adjustments to your CWMP and as long as you're not causing any issues issues with the distribution or the plant

itself, you can as long as you stay under your total capacity, it's not too much of an issue. And we we asked them, you know, would that would that require a a rewrite of the CWMP and what's the process of going through that? And they they said there really isn't one. >> Yeah. >> So, I think that's something to continue to poke at. I don't know if Google is correct, but it seems like the Boxboro example um was a self-contained infrastructure. The developer built an on-site wa wastewater treatment plant and a private water treatment plant for its own wells. I don't know if that's true or not, but that seems to be [cough and clears throat] >> they didn't have the issue with trying

to use town sewer. >> Right. In this case, we've uh uh not only reduced the density, but we've also committed to do the low flow fixtures here. Um that was part that kind of what came out of the discussions as well. >> I think anybody who's handy can replace that. >> Well, [clears throat and laughter] the as far as the proposal >> and their capacity needs, there's enough existing in the LCD currently. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. current. I'm just worried about if you start layering stuff on top of each other, you know. >> Are you asking if Shingle Hill goes through is built and then and then this is and then this is on top of it? What is the >> where are we going to be?

>> We get CST, we get >> two 40bs >> and a major >> they build up both. So, what you're telling me that what I'm hearing, and I could be wrong, usually am, is that if all three of these projects go, the treatment plant can still handle them. >> Yes. >> Okay. And the only thing is how we we internally here in town have set up the regions. >> Yeah. >> And D has to sign off on these items. won't change or they don't but we're still the state is very aggressive in bringing in >> housing. So I don't again to your point I don't see how the state's going to get

in the way of housing. >> Personally I think you know if all three projects were green lit and they were going to exceed the capacity in the LCD. I would recommend that we do amend the CWMP to shift capacity from one to from one district or multiple districts to the LCD to accommodate that. and do it formally and submit it to D for approval. However, >> D after they're starting to build, >> no, you know, in anticipation, but however, when we asked D, it did not seem concerned at all and seemed as if it was okay for us as long as we're not exceeding our total capacity. Uh, but I personally would recommend that we formalize it and submit it to D. We may not they may not

>> But how much how much left over capacity would there be after all that? I would >> that I can get you that information. And and what what impact does that have on the other >> uh parts of town that you were, you know, preserving some capacity for? >> Right. >> That's a different that's not what I mean. I just >> What about the line going up Pine Street >> the size of the sewer man? >> That would that's Yeah, they would they would apply for a um >> Mass works grant >> for housing works >> for housing works grant to pay for that install. We have to carry the balance. Whatever that was. >> So, we have to rip it up again. We just

ripped it up. >> Uh, it goes it the current I think it's just about >> um just about to the to the off and on ramp I think is where our current >> Okay. >> pipe goes to. So, >> the rest of P Street would be fine. Just getting to that. >> Yeah, your your suspension is fine. But that current line going up all the way up Pine Street is sufficient. [clears throat] >> I spoke with Chuck about that. >> I believe the you know I think preliminary look at it is that it's it's it is but obviously that comes down to the >> to the actual details of the project. >> So I think it would make sense. So I

think we're all poking at the same thing. is the cumulative impact of not just the 40bs and the CSTs, but also of the housing production plan we just talked about a half [clears throat] hour ago, right? Because a lot of those potential developments are going to happen along Pine Street. They already are, right? So the question is, you know, is the housing production plan and the [clears throat] numbers you're talking about, does this cover all of that or is it on top of this? You know, it's what is the real cumulative number that we're working with and geographically where are those additional units likely to happen because the, you know, lower pine is in

the MBTA zone. Um, but it's, you know, it's mostly around the downtown and stuff like that, you know. So, I just think it's we're all trying to get our arms around what are we really talking about as far as cumulative. >> So, we're we're meeting with uh Wright Pierce this week actually to talk to them about what a evaluation of the existing CWMP, you know, what type of what that scope and cost would look like for them to do that analysis for us. >> Good. because there's other things too with um housing policy such as ADUs and you know other potential developments coming and how do you

how do you predict what that potential need is? Um you know so we really need kind of a a consultant to come in and help us figure that out and how that impacts the CWMP. >> Okay. Yeah, >> beyond just particular projects, just what is the future look like in the needs, >> you know, and as we're looking at these other um towns that have had, you know, a big impact, Foxar is really so suburban. I mean, Weston as well, it's got a it's got a bit of a downtown. >> Um, but I'm just wondering, you know, like I said, I think it's worth you talking to these folks here. Where are these other places

geographically located in in relation to their most densely populated areas, you know, because you know, like we talked about the schools is great. We want more kids in the schools because we we have room for them. Um, >> but it comes at a cost, too. >> Well, it comes at a cost. And if you think about where the people would have to drive to get to the school, it's through our our heater, right? It's our heavily densely populated area where these other towns, they're very I would say I don't think they have the the same kind of downtown density that we do. Um, but like I said, I just I think it's a good conversation to have with those town leaders.

>> It's good. At least we have something Well, I think you've made uh some good progress >> in terms of getting down to the area where you kind of toss around this this 10% 10% member. Now, you still have another meeting to go with the planning board. You have one very early. >> We're trying to schedule it now. >> We asked we asked to schedule that. That will happen. It'll happen soon. >> Hopefully. >> Sorry. Where are we with the conservation commission? >> There's something you're in process. >> Wetland delineation. So, we have our next hearing um tomorrow night.

>> Yeah. >> Oh, okay. >> Because I think obviously the cons other concern was around protecting our water supply which is adjacent to this. >> Yep. >> So, yumm. >> So, they're all over that. Right. Exactly. Okay. So th those are out there and these are all of course in a sense these are well they are public hearings. >> Yep. >> I don't know how much interest that's attracted in terms of people who are on there says the JAG project and I think a lot of people in town know something's percolating but they don't >> everyone in town has to know something >> but they really don't know a whole lot in front of the public be out there right now. I mean, I'm when I'm around

town, people are asking what's going on. You know, they're not >> there's, you know, along with everything else, what's going on with the Chicago building? What's going on with Jack? What's going on? >> It's a long conversation. >> Yeah, that's No. Yeah, it's just a uh >> Yeah, >> by the way, what's going on? [clears throat] >> Two cups of coffee. [laughter] >> One cup of coffee at Duncan and then uh I'm usually rushing to the when I get to the office to uh take care of that. Sure. >> Okay. but you asked. >> I did. >> So, I'm looking at your timeline, your timeline here, and you've got >> sometime the planning board, what the next two or three weeks or something.

>> So, our goal would be to go to if the next meeting, if not that, depending on the agenda, hopefully in the next meeting or two. >> Next, your your next meeting is next Monday night, Mark. >> The meeting Monday night, I'm not sure about >> the agenda is probably full. Yeah, about that meeting, but definitely the following one. I'll talk to Sarah. >> Use some time to do some research to Cathy Fox. >> Yeah, I need to know that. >> Yeah, [snorts] >> I like I like the progress you've made. >> Okay. Uh obviously we want to make the best of a bad situation >> with due respect. >> Okay. Uh, and uh,

so I like I like what it's coming. >> Yeah. All right. Other questions? So will you guys be back to us after you've seen these other uh, groups for final final input? I think. >> Well, I mean, again, the the letter we're requesting is just support to start the process. >> We understand. >> Okay. Okay. Okay. So, we're happy to come back if that's if that's your request. We're we're we're not trying to to rush you all, right? Gordon, again, [snorts] Gordon College has been very cooperative. The only sellers are are not this way. They're kind of fishing, cut bait, and go to the next person who's going to be a little more aggressive. Gordon College does not act

that way. So, it's it's a joy to work with them. Um, so and we're we're willing to do that. >> And I just want to say that when I started meeting with them before even before they even told me it was uh who was Gordon was very very uh it was that they were just trying to impress upon us better that uh they wanted to be the best neighbor they could be, community neighbor they could be. I think that to what they're going. That's why they're not rushing out finding someone else lined up behind you. >> And they got a little uncomfortable going to the number we did. Um I'll say that and and um we're trying we're trying to shorten the process a little

bit um by going a little lower than what maybe we would have otherwise come in here this time with. So we're showing some cars there really. Um, but again, we all worked, you know, we're we're trying to listen and and see if we can't get to a project that's supported um as much as possible. You know, that's not always easy. Um, but willing to willing to take take the time necessary. >> So, I thank you for that. I do I do appreciate the listening. I think the listening is um evident and the step you've taken. I will give you some constructive feedback. The first time you presented at the conservation commission meeting, I there was some other person representing your company. >> Oh, Stacy Manahan from Thomas.

>> I I don't recall. >> Yeah. >> But I will just say um there was some uh youthful exuberance that gave many residents a sense that you were trying to push fast on this. So everything you just said about not, you know, let's make sure we do this right. The residents who attended that meeting got a completely different uh vibe and I just chock it up to exuberance and you know we want to we want to do this on this date, you know, and and people were asking questions about their water quality and and they had very >> consider you know. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. concerns. [clears throat] Reasonable concerns. So,

I just >> I just wanted to offer that. >> Yeah, that's good. Thank you. >> So, there may be I don't know um >> if there's some undoing that needs to >> we can certainly address it. We'll be back there tomorrow night. Um >> yeah, just there is a little there's this I don't know if it was related to October 10th. The bylaw basically prohibits delinations after that. >> We filed in August. So, we're up we were up against a little bit of a deadline. So, but we can speak to that tomorrow. That'd be great. >> I'm thinking of the timeline for SLV. >> I think they spent almost a year at the ZBA, you would know. >> Yeah. Uh

yeah. Uh no, it was about Yeah. Uh eight eight or nine months. And we were going twice uh we were going twice a month too. >> So the ZBA was meeting three times a month. Once for regular applications and to SLB, uh I will say this, if you have the opportunity to watch some of these, >> we've watched some of those. Y >> uh they weren't anywhere near as cooperative, >> right? No. >> Okay. Uh my feeling were he just wanted to be denied as soon as possible so we could go to the state and I don't see that with people. >> Yeah. >> Okay. I see what I see what I'm hearing here and what I uh witnessed with SLB is what we have here is a threeparty

partnership. >> Okay. And [clears throat] that wasn't the case with uh you were you on the board uh select uh >> yeah we were there when that was going through. >> And how was that? Was it like this? >> Um, it No, it was not. We wanted, one of the things the town wanted was some way that people from the development could get into town without bringing a car. >> Mhm. >> And we fought that was bought at the select board. Um, and >> I guess my question was what you're experiencing with >> they seem like very nice people, but it's still a very big development.

>> Well, no, I don't disagree. No, I don't disagree. What I'm asking is that uh I think that and again I wasn't really paying attention to the I still don't uh to uh I waited for I didn't want to watch anything that was going on >> because you figured you'd be looking at >> because I wanted to look at it with a fresh set of eyes when they came to the TVA. So I I I didn't watch any of that. Okay. I didn't witness any of that. So I'm asking you if what you just said this this listening tour that that JAG is doing is this something that that uh SLB did? >> Oh no. >> Okay. >> Yeah. No I I do feel the listening is much better. The size size matters. I don't know how else

to say it. It's it's big and honestly it's not even the number of units anymore because I think you you did a great job reducing that. We talk about 400 extra cars. I just like in our little they're all going to be come to the same place, you know. So, I just I think we're all need it's very easy for them to get on 128 and ignore us, right? Yeah. So, I think like I said talking to the other towns and getting some real input. >> Um so, because those are the questions that I'm hearing from residents >> and if we have real um input from the towns who have already done it. I think those testimonials, that's the word I'm looking for. The testimonials >> go a long [clears throat] way towards

easing concerns. >> Well, this is good. I think uh you're going in the right direction. Like you were you were doing your homework work correctly going around all of these boards that have >> the dog in the fight, so to speak. >> Yep. Yep. >> We have homework to do. >> No, this is good. Thank you. >> Okay. Um, in the past it's been kind of general comments, but now we have something that's a bit more specific and say >> we're very close to what do you think about this? >> Yep. Yep. Yep. So that's great. >> So we start talking about colors then you know that [laughter] >> we're in good shape. Okay. >> We're not there yet. >> Those I mean we know all

>> we stop writing the script then we're all set. [laughter] >> Got a lot more cups of coffee coming. >> No no no one yelled at me in the pizza place over by the train. Okay. [laughter] >> I told him who I was. So, >> that's okay. >> Very good. >> Good. >> Well, thank you. Thanks for your time today. >> Informative. >> Yep. >> Have a good night. >> Okay. Thank you. You too. Great. >> All right. Leaison. Kathy. >> Oh, okay. Um, so I think the only update I have is

from the downtown improvement uh committee because the uh facilities planning committee is meeting next Wednesday night. Uh downtown improvement met last week. [clears throat] Um they didn't meet in August. It was more of a kind of a what we did over the summer type situation. Um the the big thing they did was the business promotions over the summer. um flyers, you know, at the um the docks, etc. Those that seemed to be work very well because they had to replenish the the flyers at the various locations where they had them. So, that that's a sign they were used and appreciated. Disappointment was they still want to work with the MBTA to um figure out what how we can better communicate about our local businesses

at the train station. There were flyers set up there, but the holder was ripped off and >> taken down. So, uh, we're going to work with the MBTA to see, uh, what we can do to better communicate, uh, what's going on with the town. The other considerable conversation we had was around the sidewalks. So, with the Culvert project, you know, not happening this fall, getting delayed. One of the worst downtown sidewalks they talked about was from um, Pine to Elm, right? And that's supposedly gonna be taken care of with the Culvert project or with Bennett Street. And so, but those projects aren't happening anytime soon. So, there was conversation around we have a

sidewalk budget. What how are the sidewalks that we use that budget for, how are they prioritized? Because the the ones in the downtown, that part of the downtown are really bad. >> So, you know, Nate was on the call and we're just looking for an answer. We don't really understand how the sidewalk work is prioritized. Um, so I think they're looking for a little information on that because right now we view those as pretty bad. So that was the conversation. >> We do have a sidewalk specific sidewalk or is it just kind of like roads and sidewalks budget? >> Well, I saw it in the capital sidewalk and and it was like a couple hundred thousand. Okay. Well, which sidewalks are, you

know, we'll stop talking money last year to beach on that side. >> Yeah, we did, >> right? Yeah, we did. So, >> you know, the sidewalks we're talking about are basically the heater. You know, it's that section of the heater. They're heavily traveled up to >> part of house and they're pretty bad. So, if we wait for the cover project, you're talking about another two years of really bad sidewalks. So, we're asking DPW, is there anything that can be done to >> I don't I >> but I don't know. >> I think um I think it's going to be another two years or so in the downtown area because you have the cover project. We have uh the lead service line replacement

requirement that we're going to be going through. So obviously any lead service line, water service line that goes under sidewalk, we want to complete that before we >> replace sidewalks. >> Um and then we also know that the planning board and or I'm sorry, uh whomever which committee is doing the downtown streetscape study >> as well that's supposed to be providing for new sidewalks, just some repairs. I mean they're they're they're dangerous. the what we talked about because we were just talking about the businesses, you know, if you own a business >> and you one of the things you care about is tripping hazards, right? Because you if there's a really bad situation, you

take care of it and we just >> if we're talking about small repairs that are, you know, public safety issues, we can take care of that. I thought you were talking about >> Well, we know we're not going to get them completely replaced for two years, but we don't think they can wait. >> I think that that's point we have to identify where these areas are. You know, you said from Pine to uh >> you know, in front of Boobird and across the street from where Boobird was? Those both sides. They're awful. >> All the way from Pine to >> Yeah, they're both terrible. >> They're awful. >> So, just patchwork. >> You've never tried to walk from downtown

to to touch point. >> Well, this is a m Like I said, this is a major >> major. So, >> it's probably the worst. If there are trip hazards, safety issues, patchwork, that stuff we can certainly take on in a faster timeline. >> Yeah, that was the discussion at the downtown improvement, >> but Nate was on the call. >> Uh, he was. >> So, you'd like to see this done before it's too late for this year? >> I we don't know what the options are. And like I said, if there's a worse sidewalk, I'd love to, you know, in the downtown area, we'd love to see it. We just don't we don't know of any. Um >> Yeah. Come on my way. I'll show you some sidewalk. >> Yeah. Well, I mean that's pretty

>> far up. We've been doing a lot of repairs in the downtown area over by um Crosbies and you know, a lot of lot of a lot of trip hazards in especially around those trees where it's popping the cement up. So, we've been doing a lot of repairs this summer there. >> Um so, if it's repair stuff, we certainly can take that on. They should at least take they should at least take a look. >> There's a point. Yeah. Well, if Nate was on the call, then they will. >> And the the only other thing was um that they did start the uh traffic study for the uh >> uh the the intersection of Pine Central >> um to see what we might want to do when the Bennett Street project kicks in. So,

the Okay. >> They they started the traffic study. the >> black boxes went up on the polls and everybody in the neighborhood was what are these black p boxes on the polls for? So that that stirred up a lot of conversation, but it's a it's a good conversation. So, >> and I'm guessing that a roundabout is out of the question down here. >> Yes. >> Right. [laughter] >> We have a list of neighbors to uh bring into a conversation when the DPW is ready to have that. [laughter] >> Yes, that was it, John. >> Okay. Thank you, Kathy. Uh Jeff, >> uh we've pretty much heard from the planet board, so I won't repeat all that. Um HAC met last week talked about

well first of all they talked about the launch and the launch apparently there's people in town that feel that the launch is losing money but the truth is that the launch is making money and it is paying back the portion that was figured for it's like 11,000 something a year that they're supposed to be paying back. >> Yeah. for the purchase of the boats, >> right? >> Yep. >> Uh they talked about the expansion of area 7. It's going to be about I think 43 more moorings out there. So they feel that once that expansion goes in, there's going to be even more need for the launch because people aren't rowing.

>> No, that's all launch basically misery island. >> [laughter] >> So, um, and, uh, basically they're just waiting for the final permitting on that, which is pretty close. So, probably next season it should be ready to roll. Um, Essex Tech, we're still looking at our admissions policy. Um, we have the lock and gala coming up on the 27th, which is a big fundraiser for us. You weren't black t. >> No, >> I would have paid I would have paid money to go just to see you in black. >> Save you money. >> Um, yeah. And just some housekeeping stuff.

That's about it. >> Uh, >> let's see. Nothing new on pox wreck. I believe that mean this week. So, since last we spoke. Uh we had a a fun it was uh the uh ZBA meeting last week was a full house. Uh but I thought it was handled very well by the members of the ZBA but it actually quite impressed how it was all handled in house. I think people weren't happy but they walked out of here okay without feeling it was they weren't heard. And uh tomorrow night again Chicago.

>> That's right. Okay. And >> I think you know what's going on with the finance committee. >> Oh yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um >> I'm going to get 10 days of solid finance committee. >> What are you >> thinking? [laughter] See this one? I don't understand. You're climbing up to the mountain and then taking a train down. [clears throat] >> Me I would go the other way. I'm just saying let gravity work for you and [laughter] walk down. But that's your call. >> Yeah, that's why you're you and I'm me. I guess [laughter] >> that's why we were dragging our asses at the grade >> and you were just bouncing around all over the place. [laughter]

>> Um [sighs] our board of health schools. Um, I'm I'm catching up with the board of health. They don't seem to be doing anything. Um, they've got a policy coming up and I need to find out more about it, but I will find out more about it um, Thursday morning. Um, [sighs] the I'm catching up with the school committee meetings as they put them online. Um, they're I think our main interest with the schools is in their budget information. Um anecdote um they were picked for an audit by the IRS

and um it was not perfect but um they they had missed a couple of 1099s that they should have sent out. Um >> but >> other than that um they're fine. >> Must have been a random >> Yeah. Yeah, it was a random >> and [snorts] the high school, I think it's just the high school is working on a cell phone plan for the school. Currently, the plan the the procedure is when you go into a classroom, you put your cell phone in a holder. >> Um, and they are thinking about and but between classes and that that cafeteria

you can use it. They are thinking about changing that to um you it lock gets locked up when you walk into the school and you get it back when you walk out >> all day all day. >> I'm out of anxious kids. [clears throat] >> Interesting. >> So I will have more information when I get my >> Okay. Um EPW is getting its um harbor quotes in this week. that's dealing with the uh rearch moors >> docks the rotunda dredging all of that totals around I don't know 78 million or so at least that's the ballpark they're thinking that those quotes will come in you remember all those projects were

being put together >> under one >> yeah in a in a bulk sort of thing >> um I'm not going to talk trash maybe uh Tony wants to talk trash I'm sick of trash [laughter] Um, we'll move on to the historic district commission. They're getting a uh a consultant. They sent out RFPs for a consultant for uh the demolition delay project. They're expecting uh they'll pick one I think probably the 1st of October and they're expecting a forum that they will probably held a public forum to get a idea of the expression of interest in the public around November 1st. So, they're moving their whole angle is to pull something together for the Springtown meeting. So, we'll see if they get that far. What I wanted to ask

>> is Mark was talking about the new uh sign bylaws. Does are they talking to uh historic district commission because a lot of this will >> Yes, it affects that. And it's interesting and the historic district commission had a lot of issues dealing with signs back about six five six years or so ago and they would uh they had to look and see okay what what is the town policy and then how does that >> so will will you be is they work close they would they should >> I'll make a note to tell Rosemary that she should uh be in touch with Mark but she's in touch with Mark sits in on the HDC. >> Yeah. know, I just it just seems to uh I don't want one bylaw, you know, contradicting another bylaw.

>> That's correct. >> Oh, come on. >> Well, it' be fun, but as long as that >> Yeah, >> because if it goes to the CDA, I don't want to hear one. >> Are they going to look into state laws, too? >> Because I know like barber shops are required to have a lighted pole [clears throat] >> really. Thought it was a quaint little thing. [laughter] >> That's something to look into if you're going to have allow him. >> You got to allow him to have a sign and a light. >> Well, isn't Jack's in the historic district? >> Jack is in the historic district. >> He's got his light bulb. He's got his >> but they told they tried to tell him

originally he couldn't have one and he said it's a state law. I have to have >> Okay. >> All right. >> But a mutitionian doesn't. >> Nope. >> Nope. No, >> but that's under a different license, too. >> That's right. >> Uh, library their their bids for their bathroom, the ADA bathroom, which has been a topic for year and a half, two years, I know. Uh, they're going go going out on or about uh the 1st of October. Their expectation is to start that project in um early 27

and uh COA JAG happened to make a presentation to the Council on Aging last week. So this pres it was pretty much the same sort of information. >> What was the reception like? >> I would say they were kind of agnostic about the whole thing. I mean, they were, you know, I said, "Sounds good." But it didn't, you know, for the for that board, they it did not seem to affect them one way or the other. I didn't get strong reactions from >> And the CO is also starting a a grief support group >> that uh that we'll meet. I'm not sure how all of that fits together, but they're they'll be starting that in the coming month or two. So, um,

that's what I've got, Tony. >> Um, >> oh, should we I move that we approve it. >> Oh, yeah. >> Oh, >> excuse me. Yeah, that's right. The consent agenda. I skipped over that. I'm sorry. >> Uh, who's doing that? >> I am. >> Okay. >> I move that the board approve the consent agenda. >> Second. >> Okay. No [clears throat] further discussion, I assume. Jeff. >> Yes. Brian, >> yes. >> Ann, >> yes. >> Kathy, >> yes. >> John is yes. And now Tony. [clears throat] >> All right. Uh [sighs] myself, Mark uh Resnik, Mark McCoy, John attended the uh March climate summit a

couple Thursdays ago in Rockport. It was a a good event with neighboring communities to talk about regional efforts related to climate change preparedness. [snorts] Um we and then on Friday we had a well attended um 911 ceremony at the fire department. The police department and the fire department as always did an excellent job. Um, on Tuesday last week, we had an employee appreciation day at, uh, Tux Point, uh, which was well attended and a good opportunity for our staff to get together and, um, for us to let, you know, show them our appreciation for all

the hard work that they do. Um, as as far as trash is going, uh, we've we've got all of the barrels distributed, uh, over the last week or so and continuing this week, we're taking in some phone calls here and there about, um, you know, folks who maybe didn't put in an order or got the wrong barrel and we're making those corrections. sometimes barrels, you know, finding their way across the street to someone else's house, you know. Uh but, um, you know, Chuck, Nate, Ruth especially, uh, who's fielding all those calls, um, is doing an amazing job. Uh, and Sue Taylor as well, you

know, they're doing an amazing job dealing with all of those. And um you know, honestly, I I have to commend the residents of Manchester by the Sea for the way that they're handling it. Um you know, it's it's it's a big change, but I think everybody's been, you know, uh you know, working with us and understanding of the change. Uh we also opened up the drop off location at the DPW yard on Pleasant Street at 85 rear. Um, there's a couple dumpsters there for folks who want to dispose of their old barrels. >> How long is that open to? >> We said until October 2nd. Um, >> a couple weeks.

>> I got to make a move. >> A few weeks. [laughter] >> You know, if we have to if we have to extend that, we can. Um, but we wanted to >> we didn't want to have the dumpsters sitting there for months on end >> full of snow. >> Um, we also have, as I mentioned before, um, Habitat for Humanity, uh, is interested in taking some donated barrels from that pile. Um, and we've been in touch with a couple other uh, groups that like Northshore Bin Migration group. It's a reuse swap type group. Um, so

we had a meeting with the housing authority, uh, came to a we we figured out what type of barrels they needed, what sizes, and and how we were going to charge them. So, that's squared away. Um, so, for the most part, we're in a we're in a good spot when it comes to trash. Uh we've we uh had a um meeting with the harbor department and town moing uh the software program that we use. Um we had some we had some issues with the reports that were coming from that software and the way that uh we were invoicing folks who um had a past due amount, you know. So, it was very it was

a good meeting where we had some issues with them and weren't getting originally didn't feel like we were getting a lot of response, but we finally got them together and they're working on those on those fixes now. Um, this morning, uh, we met internally with John Harden on the singing beach bath house design. Remember, we had those public meetings not too long ago. So we are we came together to re reook at all the different feedback that we got from those three public meetings and put ourselves on a track to potentially uh seek CPC funding uh for the upcoming year, but we still have some work to do there. Um

I continue on union contracts negotiation. I meet with the fire department tomorrow. We've had our initial meeting with the police department. I meet with them again um on Thursday. Uh and then we have uh the DPW contract before us tonight. We have the clerical contract in tenative agreement. I'll bring that to you at a future meeting. And then Wednesday morning is our Essex collaboration meeting with the school >> and um select board chairs, finance committee chairs. Um so that'll be uh a big meeting there with followed by the CWMP meeting with um Wright Pierce. Uh I'll also Thursday be meeting with uh Black Earth to talk

about the site. Um, you know, we've had a we've we've heard from a lot of folks about the uh >> cramped conditions. >> What's the word I'm looking for? What's the traffic logistics? >> Traffic logistics. Yeah. Um, so we're we're going to be talking with them about that >> on on Thursday. >> Yeah. It's just awkward. >> Yeah, it is. >> Yeah. You know, I think that there's they have they have other access to the top uh on the right hand side in between the two buildings uh and further down on the

right. So, the access on the far end where the compactor is uh really limits how you can set up the you know the turnaround area there. >> [snorts] >> Um, I'm going to talk to them about that and see if there's a way that we can reshape >> the way that that's used because obviously with every other week recycling, it's getting a lot more use. >> It is. >> That'd be good. Um, [snorts] I have to ask you about uh the November 16th town meeting is the same night as our regularly scheduled select board meeting and that happens to be the meeting where we vote on uh and sign the ban documents. Um, so if we still needed

to meet that week, would you would you prefer to meet earlier in the day or would you want to meet on Tuesday, maybe the 17th, the next night? >> Is it just a question of signing bans or are we going to add more and more stuff to it? >> Well, we talked a couple weeks ago. We talked about, you know, not wanting to lose that meeting opportunity alto together and either moving it a week ahead or moving it a week later. Um, but that would put us in back-to-back weeks on either side >> and close to Thanksgiving. >> And so I thought maybe Tuesday the 17th would be a better option for us if it works.

>> I mean, it works for me. >> Yeah. Oh, >> you can let me know, too. >> That's probably a school committee meeting. >> Oh, yeah. >> Although that's Yeah. And that's the day after the big meeting. >> Yeah. >> Uh well, >> are you looking for a full meeting or just >> Yeah. So it's normally we would have our full meeting on Monday, but we have the special town meeting. So I'm proposing pushing it to the next day. >> Yes. >> Although Yeah. Yeah. You know, there were always must deal with and others that just say, "Well, >> we can put it off." >> Yeah. This the the the leadup schedule

for the band documents, if we move it to the week before, it really crams all the other leadup activity that has to go into that. So, I would either move it to the week after if possible or just the next day. >> Yeah. As long as it's in the evening, I'm fine. >> Yeah. >> And then the next >> We can We can >> The next Monday is what? The Monday of uh Thanksgiving week. >> Mhm. >> There's a there's a fourth a fifth Monday in November as well. >> That's getting too late for all of this. I'm just >> Yeah, you're right. >> Showing I'm paying attention. >> Yeah. >> So, we could do

>> the 23rd or the 17th or the 23rd, but if you if um let me find out if we can wait until the 23rd for the bands. >> My personal personally, I'm good with either one. >> Yeah, I'm fine with either one as long as it's on the [clears throat] >> I have preference for the 23rd because the 17th is a sculpture. >> Oh, it is. That's probably pretty important. >> Yeah, let's do the 23rd. Can we just decide now? >> Let me I got to double check that we can wait till the 23rd for the ban vote. >> All right. So, you'll get back to us. >> Yeah. If we can't, then we'll do the 17th >> and we'll keep it quick so that >> uh what time is the school committee

meeting usually go? >> Six. It starts at six. >> Starts at six. Okay. Um, and then on uh September 26th from 11 to 1, the library is hosting a good neighbor day event. Um, I signed us up. I will attend. Uh, uh, >> prerequisite is being a good neighbor, though. [laughter] >> September Saturday. >> It's Yes. Uh, it's it's this Saturday from 11 to 1. And is that the library? >> It's at the library. Uh [clears throat] it is a it really started last year with the welcoming committing committee

introducing um you know new residents to the town and ways to get involved and things that we do. So I will be there uh if any of you want to join me. >> Yeah, that might be that might be an issue. >> Why you got something to do? >> Yeah. Although um [clears throat] I will keep you posted because we have >> we do have a weather event approaching. >> Yeah. >> Oh, really? >> Supposed to be a nasty weekend. [snorts] >> Yeah, we will find out. Uh we'll our emergency management team is keeping a close eye on it and we'll have better information as we get closer obviously, but uh it could be a it could be a pretty intense storm or it could end up

being Yeah. On Saturday. >> Apple picking weather. >> Oh, Friday, Saturday, [clears throat] and Sunday. >> Yeah. >> Looks like the cape's going to get the right >> cleaned out the tour and it's [laughter] just going to ride out whatever it is to ride out. >> Yeah. >> But >> Oh, you're doing that again. >> I'm back to doing the tours again. Last night was the first one. >> Lastly, uh staffing update. Uh so Kendall, our land you our former land use clerk is now uh the assistant assessor. Uh she's um a quick study, learning fast and helping uh pick up the slack uh while we have a vacancy in her old position. We should have that position posted by the end of this week.

We also have the finance clerk position has been posted and we received a number of resumes. So, our finance department's working with uh Michelle Maloney on going figuring out who's going to get interviewed and what that schedule looks like. Um we're hoping to post the uh a patrol a patrolman position. This is to backfill Chief um Fitzgerald's uh vacancy. And and then as far as, you know, summer seasonal help, most of those are most of those have gone back uh are no longer with us. As far as going back to school,

uh the beach is officially closed. The new sign at Singing Beach is installed. I don't know if you've seen it. >> Drive by it. >> It looks good. and everything else I think one of you mentioned most of my you know whether it was DPW or planning board we've already talked about it so that's my update >> great complete executive session time >> I move that the board enter executive session pursuant to general law C3A A section 21 A3 to discuss strategy with respect to collective bargaining as an

opening as an open meeting may have a detrimental effect on the bargaining position of the public body and we will re and we will return to open session thereafter. >> Yes. >> Second. >> Okay. Jeff. >> Yes. >> Brian, >> I'm not necessarily sure I want to. >> Okay. >> We're coming back. [snorts] I don't want to. Yes. >> Ann. >> Yes. >> Kathy. >> Yes. >> And John. Yes. Returning to open session. You can't. Okay.