Fifth Essex forum: What Delisio, Frieden and Tarr said on taxes, energy, the audit and girls' sports

The three candidates for state representative in the Fifth Essex District met Tuesday night, Oct. 13, in the Gloucester High School lecture hall for a forum hosted by the Cape Ann Political Action Committee, which describes itself as nonpartisan. Moderator Howard Frisch, a retired Gloucester accountant who said he does not vote in the district, called it "a forum, not a debate."

Unlike the League of Women Voters interviews released the same week, the candidates got these questions in advance. The committee said they were written with input from its members, the Gloucester High School debate club and the public. There were 10 formal questions, then questions from the audience. 1623 Studios recorded the forum and posted it on YouTube Oct. 15.

The district covers Gloucester, Rockport, Essex and Manchester-by-the-Sea. On the Nov. 3 ballot, as the state lists them:

• Christina Delisio of Manchester-by-the-Sea, Republican
• Gil Frieden of Essex, Transparency Inclusion Environment
• Andrew "Dru" Tarr of Gloucester, Democrat, who won the seat in the March 31 special election

You can watch the full forum (1 hour 38 minutes). The speaking order rotated at the forum; here the candidates are listed alphabetically under each question.

At a glance

Positions as each candidate stated them at the forum, listed alphabetically. Their full answers follow.

Taxes and affordability

The first question asked what each candidate would do to cut state taxes, including the income tax, the 4% surtax on income over $1 million and capital gains taxes, to compete with lower tax states, and how they would measure results. (Video at 9:24)

Christina Delisio answered with the 2024 audit law. "The audit that 72 percent of us voted for. ... Open up the books, do the audit, find out where the waste and duplicative money is happening, and then we can use that money to reduce all the other expenditures."

Gil Frieden said tax cuts would not balance a struggling family's budget. "If someone is having trouble making ends meet, cutting their taxes by 1% isn't going to balance their budget." He would enroll every eligible family in SNAP food aid, which also brings a discount on utility bills, and raise the income line for heating help. He would also "protect the fair share tax that pays for the schools and transit." "Florida sells you a tax cut, but Massachusetts sells you a society."

Dru Tarr pointed to the tax package the Legislature passed in 2023. "The legislature has already been working on lowering taxes." He said he does not favor cutting the 4% surtax on income over $1 million, "which was voted on by the voters, to make investments in education and transportation," and said the focus should be "bringing down those big, big costs" of housing, energy and groceries.

In follow-up time, Tarr asked how auditing the Legislature's budget, "in the sub-hundred million dollar range," could pay for tax cuts "in the order of billions."

Taxing nonprofits

Asked whether it is time to tax nonprofits or charge them a fee, and how to make sure property tax exemptions are applied properly, Frieden and Tarr said small nonprofits should not pay; Delisio proposed a sliding scale based on what each can afford. (Video at 17:05)

Christina Delisio said she wants to pursue payments in lieu of taxes, known as PILOT. "Let's have a conversation with all of these organizations and see what they're actually using of the community resources," she said, naming "fire, police, plowing, trash." In follow-up time she named the hospital and Gordon College as valuable properties where "we can have a conversation."

Gil Frieden said no. He described the Essex Shipbuilding Museum's purchase of the Main Street Antiques land in Essex, which he said will likely come off the tax rolls: "So should we tax that museum? No. We give nonprofits tax exemption status because they make our community better." He said he would "never ask a small nonprofit to pay a penny," but would talk with any Cape Ann nonprofit large enough to fit a program like Boston's.

Dru Tarr said no, not now. "I don't think that this is the right time, especially in the climate that we're in fiscally, to try and tamp down even more on these places." He named Wellspring, The Open Door and Action Inc. as examples of the work nonprofits do.

An audience question asked whether the candidates would support capping how much land conservation groups such as Essex County Greenbelt can hold without paying taxes. None said yes outright. Frieden said he is "not a 100% no." Tarr said he is "not totally a no, not totally a yeah," and warned groups could split into new organizations to get around a cap. Delisio said such land should be looked at case by case, with the same payment in lieu of taxes conversation. (Video at 1:11:01)

Cape Ann's economy and jobs

The third question asked how each would strengthen Cape Ann's economy and create good paying local jobs. (Video at 22:48)

Christina Delisio said "Cape Ann's economy starts on the water," and that "one size never fits Cape Ann." She said she wants to expand the model of the Gloucester Biotechnology Academy, which trains young adults for biotech jobs without a four year degree, and partner with employers such as Applied Materials and Cell Signaling Technology "to train the technicians that they need right here."

Gil Frieden said he would fight for money to rebuild the seawall at the city's I4-C2 lot on Rogers Street, and said Gloucester "can't catch more fish, but we can earn more from every fish that we land," pointing to Iceland's use of the whole fish. He said "the biggest problem" holding back employers is child care. "Massachusetts has the most expensive infant care in America. $27,000 a year."

Dru Tarr said he had visited Applied Materials and Gloucester Marine Railways that day and heard about child care and housing. He said Gloucester and Rockport have "the facilities that these regional fishers need" and that a fund was set up for designated port area properties but "we haven't been able to get it capitalized yet." Asked in follow-up time why that investment had not come sooner, he said Gloucester recently got "a $5 million grant for our wastewater treatment plant," "a little chip out of the $218 million that we're going to have to ultimately invest."

Energy, net zero and household costs

Asked about the state's net zero climate mandates and what they would do about the cost of gasoline, heating and electricity: (Video at 30:19)

Christina Delisio said she supports net zero as a goal but not the timeline. "Yes, we need to address climate change. And we need to do net zero. But 20, 30, 50, it isn't going to be realistic." She called for "an all of the above approach," including natural gas, nuclear, wind and solar "when it's feasible," and said, "I will go on the record that I am against offshore wind." She said her family switched from oil to gas at the state's urging when they remodeled, and "asking people to rip out what you told them to install just a few years ago isn't a climate plan. It's a burden."

Gil Frieden said, "I support net zero," because "the longer you wait, the more it costs." He said Essex gave up its state Green Community status in 2023, losing access to energy grants, and is "only one of two towns in Massachusetts" to do so. On the grid: "If you strain it, you pay for it," and he said large AI data centers should bring their own clean power, as the governor has ordered, and he would make that a law.

Dru Tarr said, "I'm in favor of our net zero goals," but "I'm not terribly a fan of tacking things on to people's energy bills." He said programs the state wants should be paid for "at the budget level," which would affect programs like Mass Save, and that utility distribution charges need to come down.

Immigration enforcement and ICE

The question asked whether the candidates support the work of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement and would work with ICE to remove violent criminals who are in the country illegally. (Video at 36:02)

Christina Delisio said her standard is public safety and that parts of the new state PROTECT Act "are reasonable. No one wants ICE at an elementary school or an emergency room." She said the law keeps the door open to cooperation on serious violent crimes, sex offenses and major drug or gun charges, and "where I'd push is making sure that the carve out is strong enough and clear enough that genuinely dangerous persons never slip through on a technicality."

Gil Frieden said, "Nearly half of the people ICE arrested in Massachusetts since January of 2025 had no criminal record." He said he volunteers with LUCE, an immigrant support network, and that "immigration enforcement is a federal job. But if someone commits a crime here in Massachusetts, our police take care of it."

Dru Tarr said, "I support a reasonable immigration policy," including removing people "who did not come through the proper channels," but "I don't think the current way that ICE is doing things is humane." He said, "If folks who are here illegally are violent criminals, we have a justice system to deal with that," and stressed due process: "You need due process to be able to say, I am a citizen, I have a green card, I have lawful papers."

Local control

The question asked what they would do to give towns like Manchester-by-the-Sea more say over schools, housing and services rather than having decisions made by the state. (Video at 41:16)

Christina Delisio, who said she served on the Manchester-by-the-Sea Planning Board for more than 10 years, called the MBTA Communities zoning law "an absolute repeal of local control." She said it "was passed down in the middle of the night inside an omnibus bill," and she would require that "any zoning change is a standalone zoning bill," with notice and a hearing, plus a grant program so towns can measure their water, sewer and electric capacity.

Gil Frieden told how Essex town meeting twice voted down a plan to raise a stretch of Apple Street, the route around the Route 133 causeway when it floods. "My neighbors didn't vote against safety. They voted against how the decision was being made." He said "doing nothing isn't free" said that when the state needs every town to act, "I will bring the money and the expertise," and added, "Local control is how we decide. It shouldn't be how we avoid deciding."

Dru Tarr said "local control and state policy don't have to be one or the other." He said he and state Sen. Bruce Tarr have started, with local help, looking at regional approaches to housing "so that we can get ahead of the sort of things like mandates from the state." Pressed in follow-up time on how he would warn towns about mandates, he said, "I've been in office for six months and we've already started one project on trying to get ahead of mandates."

Good Harbor Beach

A student asked how they would make sure groups like Town Green cannot take control of Good Harbor Beach or other public places. (Video at 48:08)

Christina Delisio called Good Harbor "one of the crown jewels of Cape Ann" and said more decisions about public places are being shaped by "outside grants and nonprofit programs, rather than an open public process." She would put "every grant that affects our community's assets" on a public list. "Transparency shouldn't be something you have to file a public records request for."

Gil Frieden said "Good Harbor Beach belongs to the people of Gloucester and it always will," and that the mayor has said in writing that the city's work with Town Green is advisory only. "Nobody has voted to take anything." He promised every plan would happen "in the open."

Dru Tarr said the question described a "reported attempt at takeover, which doesn't necessarily correlate with an actual attempt," and said voters should "have all the facts before we're forming too many opinions." He said he would not support selling the beach and that the decision rests with local leaders, not a state representative.

Transgender athletes and locker rooms

The question asked their positions on transgender girls and women in girls' and women's sports and on locker room access. (Video at 52:55)

Christina Delisio said, "Girls sports deserve to be reserved for girls, meaning ... biological females," and "they deserve privacy in their locker rooms." She said she supports "open or co-ed options and private changing areas for any student who wants them." She asked her opponents for a yes or no.

Gil Frieden answered, "No." He said former Gov. Charlie Baker "told the US Senate that there were fewer than ten trans athletes among half a million college athletes," and "we're being asked to solve a problem that isn't happening." He said the Supreme Court left the decision to states, and "my decision will be to protect every kid."

Dru Tarr called it "primarily a culture war question that affects a very, very small ... amount of population," and said, "We have zero substantiated instances" of a trans person assaulting someone in a locker room or bathroom. He said that to protect children from abuse, the state should reform and fund the Department of Children and Families. When Delisio pressed him again later for a yes or no, and an audience member repeated it, he said, "I support trans kids." (Video at 1:17:06)

The Parentage Act

The question asked whether they would have voted for the 2024 Parentage Act, which updated state parentage law, and whether they would restore the words "mother" and "father." (Video at 58:34)

Christina Delisio said the law "passed overwhelmingly" but "went a little too far," and said it "took the word mother out of the statute and replaced it with birthing person." "I am a mother. ... As your state representative, I will file legislation giving parents the choice to use mother and father. Families who prefer to use parent can keep that option."

Gil Frieden said he is "proud" that both parties' local legislators backed it, because "it is about protecting children." He said the old law, from the 1980s, was written for married mothers and fathers, so a mother in a same sex marriage had to adopt her own baby and a grandparent raising a child could get only visitation.

Dru Tarr said the law "provides some legal protection to children and families," and "the state changing things in statute does not change your ability to call yourself a mother or a father or a nana or a grandpa."

Parents, schools and libraries

The last formal question asked what role parents should have in what their children are taught and can borrow on gender identity, sexual orientation and sexual content, and whether they support notification and opt outs. (Video at 1:04:49)

Christina Delisio said "parents come first" and should see the full curriculum "before the school year starts," and parents who object should be able to opt their children out. She then turned to the new federal scholarship tax credit: "If this state doesn't opt in soon, we're going to leave that on the table." She said the money could pay for tuition, tutoring and extracurriculars and "doesn't come from any school budget."

Gil Frieden said "Massachusetts already guarantees" a parent's role: schools must tell parents about sex education and any parent can opt out, and "this summer the legislature passed a freedom to read law," which he said "requires a public vote ... before any book comes off the shelf." "Every parent gets to decide for their own child. But every parent doesn't get to decide for every child."

Dru Tarr said he agrees with Frieden. "Parents absolutely have a role to decide what their children are learning," he said, and sex education in schools matters because "a lot of it's not happening at home anymore."

The audit, again

Audience members came back to the 2024 audit law. One asked Tarr directly whether he is for or against the audit; another asked each candidate how they voted on 2024's Question 1 and how they will vote on this year's Question 1, on public records. (Video at 1:16:31)

Christina Delisio said, "Obviously I voted yes for the audit," and on this year's Question 1, "every legislature in the United States besides Massachusetts is subject to the public records law. There's absolutely no reason."

She said the House bill now in a conference committee was written so that the auditor cannot take the dispute to the Supreme Judicial Court: "The only people group that can decide that is the Massachusetts Supreme Court. And the legislature specifically decided not to do that."

Gil Frieden said he is voting yes on every 2026 ballot question except 5 and 8. On the audit he said, "An audit isn't a veto power," and "if 72% of us voted for a ballot measure, kind of seems like we got to do it." He also said Tarr "has 100% of the time voted with the Democratic Party," and said the audit and a Republican budget amendment to raise local aid to every city and town by 10% were votes where Tarr could have broken with his party.

Dru Tarr said, "In 2024 for question one, I voted against it because I thought it was unconstitutional," and "I am for an audit. ... We just need to make sure it's done the right way," limited to the Legislature's finances. He said the dispute "is still being litigated." On this year's Question 1 he said, "I think I'll probably vote yes on that," though it "might still run up against some constitutional boundaries." He said those who thought the 2024 question unconstitutional could pursue a constitutional amendment, which "involves two affirmative votes in the legislature, and it involves two rounds of signatures."

Three principles

The final audience question asked for the three principles that would guide every vote. (Video at 1:29:23)

• Christina Delisio: "Cape Ann first. Wallet second," and listening: "to vote how the people are speaking to me."
• Gil Frieden: human rights first, then "people's personal checking accounts," then what works best for the whole state.
• Dru Tarr: "Is it good for Cape Ann," protecting "our institutions of government," and bringing money back to Cape Ann.

In their closing words

Christina Delisio returned to "affordability, accountability and local control" and said she would hold public office hours and share her phone number. She said she went to one of Tarr's posted office hours "and you were nowhere to be found."

Gil Frieden said, "Massachusetts works," and said voters "got to hear from an independent voice tonight" and asked them to "elect me, and I will bring the money and the expertise home to Cape Ann."

Dru Tarr said he has focused on "housing affordability," "education" and "economic development" and hopes to serve on economic development committees.

What did not come up

Where to find more

• Both forums side by side: where Delisio, Frieden and Tarr stand after two forums
• League of Women Voters interviews: the audit, the gun law and ICE
• In their own words: Gil Frieden and Dru Tarr answered the Cape Ann Current questionnaire. Christina Delisio did not answer by the Oct. 16 deadline; if she sends answers, we will publish them the same way.
• The race page: all three candidates side by side

How to vote

• Early voting: now through Friday, Oct. 30. Hours differ by town.
• Register to vote: by Saturday, Oct. 24.
• Election Day: Tuesday, Nov. 3, polls open 7 a.m. to 8 p.m.

Find your polling place, early voting hours and every race on your ballot in our free voter guide.

About the forum

The Cape Ann Current does not endorse candidates or ballot questions and does not accept political advertising.

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